Changing summer camps: To do or not to do?

[Frank17]

Some history: I am the new SM for a 60 scout troop, after having been an ASM (for New scouts) for 3 years. Traditionally, our Troop (and the Pack most of the scouts came from) has always attended the same local Council camp for Summer camp (Heritage Resv.). We really have no complaints about the camp. It is well run, well staffed, nice facilities, with programs for all ages of scouts. What I have noticed is that we tend to get a severe drop-off in troop scout attendance after about year 3 of attending camp; the older scouts just seem to become bored & unmotivated. When our past SM (my predecessor) suggested a change in camps about 3 years ago, he was almost tarred & feathered, run out on a rail, etc. and generally branded as a heretic by our scouts and parents. Being a smart SM, he dropped the topic gracefully.

 

Now last year, we had 42 scouts attending camp. 2/3 of them were new 6th or 7th graders. We only had 5 high school aged boys there (although they are about 1/3 of our troop). Of the H.S aged boys who came, they earned a total of 6 non-eagle MBs between them, mostly because they sat around the campfire most of the day. Definately unmotivated, as they all need additional Eagle MBs to get to Eagle. No interest in attending the COPE or Discovery programs.

 

Now the question: As the new SM, should I push our PLC to explore other Summer camp options or should I just let gravity take hold, in which case we will be back at Heritage again? What do other Troops do?

[gcnphkr]

I doubt you will change the older scout participation any. For starters MB are targeted at 13 year olds and generally camps end up dumbing them down so they really can be dull for older scouts. You might do better offering a high adventure camp option for the 14+ scouts. Also, in a troop that size I would expect that a half dozen or so of the older scouts are either CITs or paid staff at camp.

 

We have started to rotate camps, but not for the scouts. The same number and age of scouts end up going. But after going to the same camp for several years it was difficult to get adults to go. Now that we rotate we seem to have happier adults. The bad thing is that the scouts don't get a feeling of loyalty towards a particular camp. That may have an impact in the future on older scouts who no longer want to work at the camp of their youth. Another disadvantage is that many camps give site and week preference to returning units. So if you start rotating camps you may find yourself in less than desirable sites or weeks. Although with 40+ scouts you will likely be restricted to the one or two sites large enough to accommodate you anyway.

[Frank17]

Yes, we already have a high-adventure summer program in-place for our older scouts. We go between Sea Base, Philmont, and Northern Tier on an annual rotating basis. No real interest in the National Jamboree (mostly due to cost). We typically have a crew of 10-12 older scouts who go to the high-adventure camps. As an aside, our new CC suggested alternate (and cheaper) high adventure trips instead of the BSA camps, and almost got tarred & feathered too. Seems like our Scouts know what they like, and like to repeat trips.

 

Glad to know our Troop is not alone with this issue.

[diogenes]

I'd ask the scouts not attending, or only minimally attending, summer camp why they aren't participating. JObs, school, etc are one thing, but if they are skipping out because they're not getting anything out of it, then something should be done to help them if possible (or help them help themselves). It sounds like the majority seem happy enough with the routine, but the others guys might be able provide some input to freshen things up a bit. I'm a little leary of always doing something the same way just because "we've always done it that way." If it meets the needs of the scouts, ok. Can it be improved? Is there a better option? It shouldn't hurt to re-evaluate your program every once in a while just to see if everything is still great or if you've slipped to just okey dokey (pending a drop to meh, then ugh, then disbandment).

[hot_foot_eagle]

I believe in supporting your local council camp, but also in trying something different every four or five years. It's good to get out of everyone's comfort zone and bringing some good ideas back to the home council helps keep things from stagnating.

 

You may or may not get the older boys to buy in to the change. If they're not going to camp anyway, what does it hurt?

[Buffalo Skipper]

My ideas about scout camp may or may not be the same as yours. With a large troop, consider going to 2 camps. Certain logistics need to fall into place for this to work, but hear me out.

 

Assuming you have the leadership to support it, try to arrange an early summer trip to your local camp, then 3 or 4 weeks later go to a second camp, outside your council. Look for a camp which has a good high adventure program for the older boys, which may be a new experience for them. Encourage the younger boys to attend the first year program at your local camp, then, if any go to both camps (maybe half or less will), they can focus on other MBs at the second. Middle scouts (13-15) are the most likely to go to both camps, and that way they can do MBs at one and a high adventure at the other.

 

One advantage to this approach, is that if families are planning a trip which would exclude participation at one, they have a second opportunity to go, and not as a "lone scout." Another advantage of this approach is that if you do have a large troop, you will likely have slightly smaller contingents to each of these camps, which can sometimes be easier to manage.

 

We have a couple of medium-larger troops in our district (25-50 boys) who take this approach. It can't fit every program, but if you have the leadership and support, it might be worth a try.

[fotoscout]

Like many others I believe in supporting your council camp. If you don't then who would you expect to do so? However, that only goes so far.

 

You did not tell us if your troop also does a second week of camp for the older boys. Some type of high adventure week. Without knowing that bit of information it's hard to give you an answer. But, if this one week is the only week of camp that you do, then the answer is right in front of you, and you already know the answer. Your older boys are bored with camp after three years and see no reason to go back again.

 

So it's time to do some homework, find a camp with something special and different! Give it a try, maybe it will work maybe not, but at least your are doing something other than the same old thing that is not working for all of your scouts.

 

 

[fotoscout]

On a similar related thought. I've always believe the scouting is about new experiences and new challenges. Kids want and need those two things. If you continue to go to the same camp, year after year, where are the new experiences, new challenges, and new adventures.

 

It's no surprise that Troops going to the same camp year after year see one of two things happen. They see reduced numbers of older boys going to camp, and/or, they begin to have more problems with the older boys that do go to camp.

 

We do a week at our own camp and a week at some other different camp each year. For us it works and not surprisingly, many of the boys go to both camps

[jtswestark]

Frank If I may suggest, I am in the Buckeye Council, based in Canton, Ohio. Our summer camp is 7 Ranges and is located just south of Lisbon, Ohio. We have numerous troops from your council come to our camp each year, and its only a couple hour drive from you. We offer a very traditional Scouting program, with our nationally recognized Pipestone Camp Honors Program. The typical Scout goes to our camp for five years to complete each of the programs year. By that time they minimally need to have earned their Life Rank. Many of them return for a sixth year, just to enjoy the benefits of being an older Scout. How many camps can say they have their guys going to camp for five years!? To be clear - if they are in the troop they go to camp and get their next years Pipestone. In my nearly 7 years as an adult leader, Ive not had a boy go to camp that was active in the troop. If he doesnt go to camp, we lose them. Im convinced its all because of Pipestone. http://www.buckeyecouncil.org/Seven%20Ranges.htm(This message has been edited by jtswestark)

[asm 411]

We are very fortunate here in NE Ohio. The previous poster spoke well of Seven Ranges which I have only heard good things. We have camped there on weekends. Really nice camp. Our council Camp is Camp Manatoc just a little North of Akron, OH in Peninsula. We have a great attendance numbers by all ages. For that matter we have older Scouts that are typically inactive, few meetings and maybe one campout a year, that come to summer camp. Like Seven Ranges there is also a 5 year program for the Scouts to participate in.

 

Additionally we have Scouts that will go to Manatoc as provisional Scouts for a second week of summer camp. The Boys love it.

 

So you may also want to check it out http://www.gtcbsa.org/manatoc/index.html which is also no too far away.

[shortridge]

If the PLC is adamantly against changing, you can't force them to do it. All you can do is offer several alternatives - and then, if the older Scouts complain about where they end up, gently remind them that it was their decision, and offer up those alternatives again.

 

One place you might want to consider for your older Scouts is Henson Scout Reservation, near Sharptown, Md. It has a good off-site "Nanticoke Trek Adventure" program - kayaking, hiking and cycling - that takes Scouts through some of the most beautiful and still-pristine areas in the Chesapeake Bay region. Adults are welcome to come along! www.delmarvacouncil.org.

[AwHeck]

Our troop is also in the 60-70 'registered' scout range... at one time we were up to 100 scouts. In the year that we were at 100 scouts, we took over 40 scouts to summer camp and it was a logistical nightmare. We teased the youth leadership that they couldn't count past 30 as it seemed to take forever just to do a headcount before setting off somewhere. Ever since that year, we have offered two summer camp options each year plus a true High Adventure. We are in Colorado and have several options in-state for summer camp so one camp is in-state and the other is in a neighboring state. The troop has historically only gone to the in-council summer camp about every 2nd or 3rd year simply for variety sake. We do have a policy that the new scouts must go to the in-state camp and older scouts can choose which camp to go to. Virtually all camps in our part of the country have some sort of older scout program and we encourage that for those who can't go on the actual high-adventure trip. Offering two summer camps plus a high adventure trip each year has served us well, we typically have 20-25 scouts per summer camp plus at least 2 or 3 crews for whatever high adventure they are doing that year. We are fortunate that one of our former scoutmasters loves the boundary waters and organizes a trip there about every second year but we also do Philmont and recently took 2 or 3 crews to Sea Base.

[sk84sv]

many troop switched up a lot and their were always older scouts. i love heritage but it would definitely get old

[SSScout]

"And now for something completely different..."

 

Never hurts to suggest someplace new. A Troop planned trip to Boston,USS Constitution, history, etc.

Check out the Canadian Jamboree www.ccjam09.com They will easily welcome US Scouts to visit or stay the week...

Just a couple of ideas that needn't remind them of ScoutCamp...

[dg98adams]

I see the same thing in our Troop. The same local camp from cub Scouts to 3 years of boy Scouts, then they get tired of camp.

 

Encouraging the older boys to show some interest in "getting out of the comfort zone" of the local camp to try another camp does not make me a popular ASM in the leader meeting.

 

I understand that older group does have Band Camp, Family Vacations, 4-H (Fair) and other things during the summer, but I bet we have 6-8 solid 1st Class+ Scouts who would be interested in a New camp as I know they have gotten bored.

 

The other task is leadership. If you can't get 2 Adults to go with this group....

 

My son's 1st Boy Scout summer camp year, I just showed up in the evenings to help/sit around at the campsite (I'm 1 of several ASM's) . The 2nd & 3rd year I volunteered for "Camp Aquatics staff & MB data flow" for the week, and only hung out at the campsite for sleeping and campfires (I know it's the toughest job at camp, but hey I have the sun glasses for it. ). I rarely saw my own son until it got dark as he did not need any aquatic stuff.

 

This year we are going out West during summer camp as a family, but he is coming back to volunteer as a CiT, or so he says.

 

I think next year I am going to volunteer to go again if they go to a new camp.