Girls under 18 serving on camp staff ?

[Eamonn]

If asked I think I would have to say that I think of myself as being open minded, not a sexist and definitely not chauvinistic.

I'm very much for coed Scouting and look forward to the day when all of our programs are open to both girls and boys.

 

Over 30 years back we had females who were hired as cooks at summer camp.

I remember with fondness the two slightly over middle aged Ladies who provided me with great sweet rolls and made homemade pizza on Wednesday nights. I don't ever remember seeing them in street clothes. They wore their white uniforms and hairnets at all times. I wondered if they slept in them.

When not feeding summer campers they were employed by local schools to cook for the students.

We also had a Camp Nurse, the wife of the Camp Director. She provided me with late night cups of tea.

Without wishing to sound rude or in any way put down these fine Ladies, I think most of the campers young and old looked upon these Ladies more like they would their mothers than anything else.

We did for a number of years have a female Aquatic Director, she ruled the pool area with an iron fist. No one dared step out of line on her watch.

I don't recall when we hired the first "Young Lady". I do remember that about 3 or 4 years back we had a really good looking girl as the Handicraft Director. OJ as on staff that year and every-time I went looking for him he seemed to be hanging out in the Handicraft Area.

Last year we seemed to have a lot more young girls on staff.

Back in January of this year I was talking with the fellow who serves as the Camp Commissioner, he said that a girl had been hired as the Program Commissioner, he went on o say that he felt that there were too many young girls on staff.

I have heard that some of the male staff members (Youth) felt that the girls just didn't know enough about Scouting to hold some of the positions? I didn't talk with them, so I don't know why? They would say such a thing.

It does seem clear to me from seeing how OJ acted that at times young girls at camp can be a distraction.

It does seem that some male staffers are not 100% behind having females hold certain positions at camp.

I do have to admit that while I have nothing against female Leaders, some where deep inside of me there is something that kinda likes the idea that Summer Camp is a little like "Boys Night Out".

This would be different if the program were to be fully coed, but as long as we have 30 or 40 Male staffers and a dozen or so Female Camp staffers serving a couple of hundred male campers? I think there might be problems.

Could it be that I'm deep down,really some sort of sexist?

Eamonn

Eamonn.

[sst3rd]

Eamonn,

 

I've always hated labels. We are who we are, and have opinions based upon our knowledge and experiences. I personally would like Scouts (BSA) to be male only. I don't even like the Venture program for girls aged 14 and above. Hey, it's just the way I feel. I think the BSA works as is, although continued "tweaking" here and there, are always welcome. Girls have their organizations. Go there.

For the first time, our summer camp experience was a bit off. The water front Staff had for the first time several females. I'm not sure what the age requirements are, but they appeared to be 17 or 18. Since we didn't have many Scouts down at the water front program area, I wasn't directly knowledgable. My info came from the daily morning leaders meetings. Wednesday, it was mentioned by several leaders that the ladies were wearing far to revealing swim suits, and the male water front director was entirely too "friendly" with them in front of the Scouts. It was corrected, but this situation had become a big deal throughout camp, and our Troop.

This camp has a strong and consistant summer camp program. We attend (we're from out of their council) every year, as their programs are fantastic. I know that the problem is finding qualified and enthusiastic Staff, and that the camps (all over) have had to expand their "pool" of applicants.

It is what it is. I'll support the program to the best of the betterment of our Troop and Scouts. Our Troop is doing very well, and as the SM, I train and support our youth leaders (although I do much more than that). If BSA goes co-ed, I'll quit. I don't need to defend my position, it's just the way I am. I am neither right or wrong. All will go forward with or without me.

Eamonn, I have for years always enjoyed your thoughts, stories, and muses. I continue to learn from all who post here.

 

sst3rd

[scoutldr]

If you accept the premise that camp staffers are "employees", would it be legal to discriminate based on gender (or age, religion, etc).

 

OK, the lightbulb just went on. Staffers must be registered members of BSA in order to legally keep gays and atheists out of staff positions. DUH~

[Eamonn]

sst3rd

I have a good many close friends who think along the same lines that you do, when it comes to the BSA going fully coed.

I could argue with them until I was blue in the face and they are not going to change.

As things stand right now, they are fine and dandy.

I do think if you ever get the opportunity to work with female Sea Scouts or Venturers that you will have a change of heart. Heck if an old codger like me who never had a daughter can do it? Anyone can!

 

scoutldr

The BSA manages not to hire DE's who are not in agreement with the standards so why would it be any different for camp staff?

Eamonn.

 

 

[Horizon]

Our summer camp had many women on staff. The CPR instructor and leader of the First Aid area was a woman, no problems there. There were several women working as Merit Badge Counselors as well, but they were all college students studying forestry, nature, etc. These women all worked in the handicrafts and nature areas. All of them were in the camp uniform of Venture shirts during the week.

 

In speaking with the Camp Director, they were happy to have the women simply because it was difficult for them to staff the camp. Having these women come down for a couple of months during the summer, bringing their energy and knowledge, was critical to delivering the program.

 

Now - we probably could only staff the program with former Boy Scouts - but more Boy Scouts would have to appy for the position.

[croushorn]

Yep, been told the same: can't get enough boys to apply, or at least enough qualified ones. We've had girls on staff for about 10 years now and for the most part they do as good or as poor as our boys do... that's not a surprise as the bell curve applies for both as should the same standards for both. As an employer, there are age and gender laws the local council needs to obey today that reasonable minds didn't force on us back in the day.

My issue with girls on staff is the distractions it causes the boys, plain and simple, for both Scouts and other Staff. It's usually not the girls' behavior that is the problem, it's just what their presence does to the boys. In those situations when there's a 50-100 to 1 ratio of boys to girls, some girls can take advantage of the extra attention they're getting. And if the directors don't stop that immediately there's real problems brewing. They've had to fire more than one staffer for sneaking into the wrong tent after taps. Running camp is difficult enough for these young men; with the added complications of female staff it can really add to it. While the issue isnt going away, it calls for strenuous control and oversight. And I say all this with a 14 year old that wants to join HER brother on staff next year

 

[eolesen]

I'm sure it would do wonders to get older boys interested in attending camp, but high-school age girls working as staff does present some risk in my over-protective mind. Images of "interactions" between staffers in "Dirty Dancing" and "Meatballs" immediately spring to mind...

 

I'm sure they may be a bit of a distraction, but I don't see the college age and above women being as much of a risk. 16 and 17 year olds girls aren't necessarily going to be as quick to use good judgement when it comes to maintaining their distance after-hours from the 16 and up boys likely to also be working as staff.

[mmhardy]

Our proximity to Canada affords us with many opportunities to see what a true coed Scouting organizaton would look like. I have no problem with with any gender as long as they meet the critria of the job. That's the real world! I expect our boys to treat our lady staff members with the same respect has the AARP set.

[insanescouter]

I am for co-ed Scouting to and have served on camp staff many times. The last time I was the adult male over the male youth staff camp. Yes we had problems of them trying to sneak off to the girls camp, etc.. but it was never that big of a deal.

 

 

 

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

 

Helping leaders one resource at a time....

[John-in-KC]

What's the problem here? I've seen a Venturer, a woman, 17, who was a better lifeguard than 85% of all guys. She was a member of our pool staff.

 

I've seen a Venturer, a woman, 16, who loved things arty and crafty. She was the go-to person in our Handicraft Lodge.

 

This very night, I saw a Venturer, a woman, 17, the President of EagleSon's Crew, who did an exceptional job in the "Lightbulb" skit at our Cub Scout Family Resident Camp's campfire.

 

Confidence and competence go a long way to solving the problem of the sniggering 14 year old.

[OldGreyEagle]

At the summer camp I recently attended, there were several young lady staff members. A few were daughters of other staff members who were in the kitchen because the Council could not hire enough male staff to round out its roster. The DE of the District I serve was the Scoutcraft director of the Camp in 2003, there is nothing that kills the stereotype of a female as a sex object quite like meeting a strong competent woman (whatever her age).

 

Oh, did I mention she was in the Crew I was with?

[NWScouter]

I can tell you guys arent from the west coast. I started to go as parent/ scoutmaster to scout camp in the mid 80s. My last as a youth was 69.

 

I went to camps in my home council Evergreen/Mt. BakerFire Mountain, Chief Seattle Parsons, Portland Ore. Council Meriwether, and Northern Idaho Easton; all which had females on staff.

 

The one Im most familiar with is Fire Mountain, my son served on staff there for ten years, starting as Staff in training 14 years old and end up for two years as Program Director. They had females on staff there back when he was cub scout and that was not only for cub camps.

 

They registered then as Explorers then and now as Ventures.

 

Yes there were are few that had boys on their minds but it was handled. But of the others, I remember most but the two Ill mention are Kristin and Leah, both of whom I would trust my life with the back country as I would most of the young people I worked with on that staff. Kirstin you would find in the morning running before breakfast. For she was on Idaho State cross country team, I dont know how many years she was on staff, but for a few years she was the climbing director and ended her time as Program director a year or two after my son. Now Leah is one of two daughters of fellow Vigil members, I saw her grow up. As Kirstin was runner, Leah was a swimmer, she avoided beach staff, but every week was in the lake leading the mile swim. I rowed a couple years her guard boat and almost got run over by her, she was fast. Now she only stayed on staff from 14 to summer before her senior year, she went off the Coast Guard Academy and now serving as Ensign. By the way both of the hold the Girl Scout Gold Award and Leah the Venture Silver and I think the Ranger.

 

I dont know of any camp out in this area that does not have young women and staff and I would not change.

 

By the way many of them show up at OA events and as soon as they turn twenty-one some unit elects them as adult to the OA.

 

[Apache Bob]

Yes they should be on camp staff as long as they meet the job requirements. Would think that you will probably have more behaved and well mannered boys at the camp also.

I do not think it will happen in my lifetime but hope that some day in the future our BSA will join the rest of the world in having both boys and girls in Scouting.

 

[Gold Winger]

I asked the camp director where my son went to summer camp about my daughter working there and the answer was "not until she's 18." The reason was that they did not have appropriate housing and supervision for minor girls.

 

"I do not think it will happen in my lifetime but hope that some day in the future our BSA will join the rest of the world in having both boys and girls in Scouting."

 

Rest of the world? We have boys and girls in Scouting. Ever hear of the Girl Scouts? Ever hear of Venturing? Maybe you should be petitioning the GSUSA to admit boys.

[Hint]

As a rising 9th grader, my daughter volunteered at our local Cub Scout day camp for a week. She was a Silver Award GSUSA member, freshly crossed from Cadette to Senior Rank. Working at a CS camp gave her enough hours to knock out a prereq for her Gold Award which she ultimately earned by the end of the following summer. She had to persuade some FEMALE adult BSA members that she wouldn't be a distraction etc to the male teen staffers. She and a fellow Girl Scout member who also volunteered were able to correct any misconceptions that girls would automatically be flaky or flighty.