Goshen and e. coli

[Hint]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080102855.html

 

Hmmmm, my scout is supposed to go to Goshen on Sunday.

[AnniePoo]

I would say that if the Dept. of Health hasn't shut them down, your group will probably be quite safe from E. coli infection. If there were gross violations of food safety regs in the food service area, they'd be shut down. Right now, they're probably being extremely careful and have sanitized everything within sight of food prep areas, so you may be safer than ever. You will almost certainly get parents that don't let their kids go. You may want to request information from the epidemiologist or Health Dept. personnel that you can pass along to the parents.

[Hint]

I am not concerned for the scout who has the stomach of steel, rather a family member about to undergo surgery who lives in the same house when the scout gets back. NCAC Public Relations (the # I was told to call after I called Goshen directly) said that the lake was declared negative and that they threw out ALL the food in the kitchens (meat and produce).

[Gold Winger]

Oh wow! 13 out of what? 1,200 for any given week? Your poo is 80% e coli. Now can anyone imagine that 13 out of 1,200 Scouts didn't wash their hands after going to the latrine?

 

Sheesh!

[FireKat]

GW, you do not get the disease from yourself. Escherica coli  is need in your gut. The diseases caused by a substrain the has become virulent, not you every day gut version.  It is easy to kill with proper cooking.  Most of the troubles occur when people handle raw meats then, without washing their hands, start handling foods that will not be cooked.

Hint. you should be OK as they will now be more vigilant so not to get anymore bad press. Make sure all ground meats are well done and do not let someone handle raw meat then anything that is ready to eat.

[Gold Winger]

"Escherica coli is need in your gut."

 

I know that, that's why your poo is 80% e coli.

 

"GW, you do not get the disease from yourself."

 

Hmmmmm . . . let's see . . . an 11 year old boy goes to the can and gets his own poo on his hands. He leaves the latrine and doesn't wash properly, if at all. Then he munches a Snickers bar. E. Coli going in the wrong end. Unless you are asserting that you are immune to the e. coli that come out of you.

 

 

[FireKat]

Have you nnot ever wondered how the E. coli got in your gut in the first place? The average E. coli will not cause a disease. You would die without it. (bleed to death)  There have not been human carriers of E. coli 0157 to my knowledge. Most cases are traced back to undercooked/raw meats, buy direct contact or cross contamination. A few to unwashed vegetables or fruits. It may not be appealing but the FDA allows a certain amount of fecal matter in processed foods. (i.e. rat droppings and such).   

[AnniePoo]

I'm a food microbiologist, and I work in a research lab with bacteria that cause food poisoning. Here's the scoop about E. coli:

 

There are thousands of strains of E. coli, and most do not make you sick. Indeed, many live in your intestinal track (along with other bacteria), and don't cause any problems. However, there are some strains that will make you sick. Usually, when people talk about dangerous E. coli, they are referring to enterohemorrhagic strains like E. coli O157:H7, which causes bloody diarrhea and causes serious kidney problems in about 10% of the kids it infects.

 

These kinds of E. coli can be carried in many animals without symptoms, and are shed in their feces. Thus, they can contaminate meats, certain types of produce, raw milk, and other agricultural products. Sufficient cooking will kill these organisms, but you have to be careful about cross-contamination between things like raw hamburger and other foods that will be eaten raw. Aside from outbreaks of E. coli O157:H7 food poisoning caused by raw or undercooked meats, numerous outbreaks from this organisms and related strains of E. coli have been linked to raw milk, unpasteurized (i.e. unheated) apple cider, sprouts, and fruits and vegetables. Washing fruits and vegetables does NOT necessarily get rid of all of these organisms.

 

Although the nasty kinds of E. coli can cause serious illness even in adults, it can also cause milder illness. Thus, someone might not realize they were infected with this bacterium and can pass it along to others if they don't use good bathroom hygiene practices.

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has accurate information about E. coli and other pathogenic bacteria on its website at:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/stec_gi.html

 

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also has good information about microorganisms that cause food poisoning in it's online "Bad Bug Book":

 

http://www.foodsafety.gov/~mow/intro.html

 

[mdkeplers]

Goshen Scout Reservation was shut down indefinitely as of noon today.

 

http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=370&id=44627

[Gold Winger]

The cynical me wonders if all the Scouts will get refunds. If there is a refund, how much pressure will be applied to the DEs to get that shortfall made up through FOS. Or how many DEs will lose their jobs over this.

 

Could this be the end of Goshen? Could this all be a plot by a rival camp? Could it be the actions of homosexual atheists? The heck with the health department, call the FBI!

[rjcluvvt]

as a member of a rival camp I resent that statement . . . although NCAC's camp is in my council.

If we were to do something to Goshen it would have at least have been funny. Our camp did get some nice publicity since newspapers thought that our camp was the infected one. All their reporters came and we showed them our beautiful camp.

[packsaddle]

Anniepoo, the strain was indeed the nasty you mentioned:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/04/ST2008080400819.html

 

Whenever I hear of the E. coli problem being associated with ground beef contamination, I think in terms of improper food preparation, namely undercooked. Because you're the professional in this matter, I'd like for you to give us your take on this, maybe repeat the oft repeated guidelines on proper cooking and its importance.

Thanks

[Rythos]

It seems that in many of these cases it is not undercooked meat, but usually cross contamination, or time/temperature abuse of food that turns out to be the problem. Using a knife to cut open burger packs and then not properly cleaning knife, prep area, cutting board, before doing toppings that will not receive further cooking (lettuce, cheese, tomato, etc....) or improper cooling, hot holding, and or storage of food.

 

It also seems to be one of the part time staff people who are only going to work there for one summer, and have recieved no food safety training, or are not really concerned if it gives the place a black eye for years to come

 

Rythos

 

[Rythos]

And as far as the proper temps go:

 

Whole Muscle Beef & Pork - 145 degrees

Ground Meats (not poultry) - 155 degrees

Poultry (whole or ground) - 165 degrees

 

Holding temps are:

Over 135 degrees for hot food

Under 41 Degrees for cold good

 

Cooling is 135 to 70 within 2 hours and 70 to 40 within an additional 4 hours.

 

Food between 70 and 135 is considered to be in the Danger Zone, the temp range in which Bacteria will grow most quickly.

 

One thing that many people don't realize is that several of the most common foodborne illness are caused by toxins, that are created when the bacteria grow and reproduce, not the bacteria themselves. Most bacteria can be killed by cooking to 165 degrees, but if the bacteria have had too much time to grow they will have produced toxins that are not killed by the heat, and people end up with one of the many "two bucket" diseases

 

Rythos

 

 

[packsaddle]

Which ones are heat labile?