behavior

[Northbell]

What are some creative, constructive disciplines that we could use with our troop during summer camp? We have a young troop who last campout got into a "friendly" troop rock fight (unsupervised). We have come up with a behavior contract but would like to know some time tested ideas.

[John-in-KC]

Lose the contracts. They don't do much good.

 

Invest in talking about the Scout Oath and Law, beyond recitation at speed from memory. Better to invest in some Adult Association and talk before you go to camp, while at camp, after camp, and after any incident you have.

 

Helpful... Friendly... courteous... kind...

 

When the SPL backed up by the SM says "Don't Throw Rocks, dagnabit!", Obedient.

[Twocubdad]

I assume from the context of your post that you are using "discipline" to mean "punishment." My apologies if I assume incorrectly.

 

Discipline is training which makes punishment unnecessary. We don't punish our Scouts. That's up to the parents as they see fit. Our only recourse is to remove the young man from the activity, if that's warranted. The Scout may be removed just long enough for an intense Scoutmaster's Conference, or as long as being permanently removed from the unit.

 

Part of our training is to review with the Scouts, on an annual basis, our troop behavior expectations. Along the lines of what John said, our Number One expectation is that the boys will live by the Scout Oath and Law. Also, just before the new Scouts join us in March, we have a troop session on hazing and the Golden Rule. We use adults to act out hazing, harassment and intimidation scenarios. We try to yuck it up and make it fun, but we try to highlight things that the boys may not perceive as problematic. (I'll send you details if you like.) Of course, teaching the Scout Oath and Law should be occurring informally all the time.

 

From time to time, it is necessary to provide a particular Scout with some individualized "retraining" in response to a particular behavior which does not meet our expectations. I like essays and letters. Written and personal apologies are good. I recently required our troop pyro to complete the requirements for Fire Safety merit badge. I didn't require him to earn the MB -- from an advancement standpoint I wouldn't do that -- but he did have to complete the requirements for me. Once he did all that work, I suggested he contact the counselor and get the badge, so it ended up as a win-win.

 

One thing we DO NOT do is require Scout to do stuff like wash dishes, clean the latrine or pick up trash. Those are not punishments, they are chores we need to do to take care of ourselves. If one Scout is given KP duty as a punishment for something, what does that say to the poor guy who did it yesterday because it was his turn? Plus, using chores as a punishment fouls up the patrol's duty roster.

[FScouter]

At the next PLC meeting there could be a discussion about how to plan a campout program such that there wouldn't be enough time for a troop rock fight.

[Eamonn]

A good pal of mine in this forum has at times reminded me that we no longer use"Scouts and Scouting is a safe haven" and we now use the term "Scouting is a controlled risk".

I really wish it was a safe haven, but I'm OK with the "Controlled risk".

We take care to ensure the safety and well being of the people we are with and others. We do however at times take risks. This is part of the program and if we were to remove all the risks, there wouldn't be very much left.

As volunteer leaders we take a risk every time we take Scouts away.

We control the risk by knowing as much as we can about the Scout. Just as we want to know if he has any health issues, we also want to know how the Scout acts.

We have communicated to him and his parents what is expected and what is unacceptable.

Different Scouts react and act differently in different situations.

Some Scouts I have served will react to "The Look". Others will require a word in their ear.

For my part I try to be fair, firm and consistent. Scouts do need to know where they stand and what is and what isn't acceptable.

Some time back I overheard a couple of Scouts talking, one said that Mr. Soandso was a real pain! The other said that he agreed but because he was always a pain he knew what to expect.

As the people in charge of events and activities we make the call when the risk becomes more than we are happy with. Scouts who become too risky to manage can face consequences.

These consequences can range from involving law enforcement, removing the Scout from the event or activity, a talking too or just a shake of the leaders head.

While I don't buy into the "Boys will be boys" I do try and remember what I was like when I was the age of the Scouts.

I may have my pet peeves (I detest spitting!!) but I do go out of my way not to make mountains out of mole hills.

Making use of well run reflections is a good way of making the Scouts aware that their actions have consequences on the entire group, both good and bad!!

Rather than going hunting for things that a Scout or group of Scouts are doing badly or wrong, go the other way and seek out things that they are doing well or trying to do well. Be quick to praise and reward, even it the reward is just a smile.

If and when there is a need to have that word in the ear. Remember that the Scout is not charged with being the next ax murderer! This should be a learning experience. Ask open ended questions, let him tell you why he is having this word in your ear. Allow him to come up with a way of fixing the problem.

Then hold him accountable for making the fix work.

Behavior and discipline is all about relationships and leadership. Without wanting to come off sounding like I'm something that I'm not. I do believe that I'm a way too good a leader to have to rely on some contract or listing of rules.

99.9% of the time the Scouts I know go out of their way to want to please me. 99.9% of the time they know the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

Something like the rock fight can be looked at in a reflection. They know all the reasons why they ought not be having a rock fight. You know that once they decide that rock fights are not such a good idea that it can be replaced with a semi orderly water fight!!

Eamonn.

 

[Northbell]

Thanks, alot of wisdom here!

I am not SM or ASM but trying to help out. The scouts punishment was to not talk during the next hour or two during the camporee bbq.

How long is to long for a partrol or troop to be unsupervised? I personally think with supervision this would not have happened.

Following that incident, one boy yelled at the SPL (no cussing) and the SPL voted to send him home in which his parent drove over an hour to get him.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

The SPL "voted" to send the scout home???

 

It is not the Youths role to punish other youth. This is the adult leaders responsibility. Your unit leaders need more training.

 

How long should a patrol be able to go without adult supervision? About 6 years if you do it right.

[Eamonn]

Northbell,

Even as a "Helper Outer"?

You can create the right sort of environment.

As a rule (But not always!!) It is worth taking the time to look at "Why da do dat?".

The old "The Devil finds work for idle hands" is very often true.

Scouts with nothing to do will find something to do. Sometimes not what they should be doing!

The cause of this could be: Poor planning? Poor Communication? Lack of imagination?

Even with the best plans and with great communication things don't always work out. That super activity that was supposed to last two hours is over in an hour.

This is where imagination is needed.

A lot of Scouts will plead and beg for Free Time. Sadly the truth is that a lot of Scouts don't know how or what to do with Free Time.

This is when the adult in charge (Or helping out!) gathers the youth leaders and helps them come up with "Plan B".

I know that I would be unable to attend a BBQ and not talk for ten minutes.I suppose it could be argued that eating in silent meditation gave the Scouts time to think about their sins? I'm not really sure what lesson they got from it?

From what has been posted it seems to me that the Lad who was sent home, was sent home for yelling at the SPL?

Youth members really shouldn't be sending each other home.

I can and do see that the SPL may have been upset. But I also see that if he was doing his job, he might have done something to prevent the rock throwing? - But I might be being unfair. I wasn't there!!

Eamonn.

[ozemu]

Northbell,

 

welcome to the forum.

 

Your how long question for an untrained person would take a very long time to be complete. Bob White usually suggests that people get trained and if that is possible (I'm assuming you may not be trained) then I suggest that you make a start. You will learn the theory that will answer your question more fully. You will also be able to assess the way the Troop is being run and how you may help out more.

 

A Troop requires adults to be supervising at all times. That may mean that adults are not actually present for periods of time but supervised from a distance with suitable youth leadership in the Troop. Some Troops are more ready than others - lots of variables and trained leaders should be able to assess that and supervise as suits the experience and ability of the youth members.

 

Patrols might be supervised but if camping more or less alone they should not need much. Trained leaders would not let an unready Patrol go too far away. A Patrol that works well could go for multi day expeditions without adults. More than one Patrol on the ground = a Troop = at least two adults supervising.

 

Behaviour contracts come in many forms. Twocubdad and Eamonn did a good job explaining this. I can see an excellant contract that specifies what fits/doesn't fit a law. I may not even write anything down as it is the reflecting and projecting forward that is important. Visual reinforcement sometimes works well. Role playing - great idea! If the behaviour continues - have another discussion; until everyone gets the point and the boys start controlling it without adult supervision.

 

I work at a school campsite. Every week my instructors sit down after the school leaves and we discuss the most interesting near miss or incident that occured that week. We learn from each other. If we did something wrong it is a non-judgemental way to reinforce that. I think that is how reasonable adults manage infringements or the unforeseen consequences of decisions and Scouts are just inexperienced adults. If I treat my Scouts as adults they end up behaving like adults.

 

...and there is nothing wrong with throwing rocks IMHO. Boys have been training their arm, eye and reflexes by throwing rocks for thousands of years. We don't catch our food that way any more though. Maybe throwing rocks at a target would be better? Personally I enjoy skimming flat rocks on water and have taught this essential skill to many young people. Still need to have some order in this for safety but once explained I retire from the field before I put my shoulder out.