About Honor Camper Programs, OA or MOS

[OldGreyEagle]

I had never heard of Mic o Say until it was mentioned in the Forum. I am not sure I understand the place of an Honor Camper program either the OA or MOS. I know what I have been told by the OA people here, but what they say and how they behave does not mesh very well.

 

What is the purpose of having MOS or the OA? What role does it play in scouting? You may or may not have to excuse that I don't see a reason for either is a well run troop program. If the reason for these programs is to make up for a poor troop program, then I think taking scouts away fronm their unit is a poor fix. Then again I may not understand the whole purpose. I know about cheerfull service, but rarely do I see it displayed, rather I see elitist attitudes by those who are not close to elite anything. Then again, its my opinion, I may be wrong

[John-in-KC]

OGE,

 

To me, the honor societies fundamental purpose is to reinforce specific ethical values ... while they're generally within the Scout Law, the emphasis puts some punch into them.

 

Let's look at OA: The Brotherhood of Cheerful Service. The major ethic of the order is SERVICE. That's an important ethic imo. Too much of our world is based in business and profit, and too little is based in helping the community and others because it's important to do. The cheerful part of the ethic is that do not give our service begrudgingly, but rather give it willingly and understanding the reward goes to all, not to us. Finally, the brotherhood element to me reminds us that 1 can accomplish much, but groups working together accomplish more.

 

A similar ethic is found in the key words of MOS. I will PM them to you, we do closely hold the ethic that the youth learn it by discovery.

 

Above and beyond these, every young person gets a boost out of being recognized for the good things they've done and are expected to do. Too much of the Advancement Method, from what I've seen, is not about Recognition, it's about expectations.

[OldGreyEagle]

How is that different than what the Troop affords the scout?

[Narraticong]

Cheerful service and promotion of camping have always been strong traditions in the OA. New Brothers quickly find that their fellow Scouts may have elected them for their past efforts, but the Ordeal quickly makes it clear that they will not rest upon their laurels!

 

In Detroit Area Council, the Brothers of Migisi Opawgan Lodge 162 work tirelessly in maintaining our camps. Being an active ranch, D-Bar-A has miles of fence to be painted each year. Without the OA Brothers, this 1,700 acre camp could not be maintained. The Lodge also runs an annual Lincoln Pilgrimage outing for Cubs and other Scouts.

 

Adults are brought into the OA not for what they have done in Scouts, but for what they have to offer to the Lodge and Scouts. So, much is expected of those who are selected.

 

The young men I see in OA just seem to be reaching a whole different level of leadership. They learn to work with other Scouts and adults from the various chapters. Many of these young leaders are able to develop public speaking skills to a level they could not in their troop.

 

Maybe I have just been lucky, but in 36 years of being a Brother, I have seen few who considered themselves elite. And those that do usually are the ones who get their flap and are never seen again. Unless you consider "he who has the dirtiest sash" as being elitist, sweat and dirt are not trademarks of the elite!

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Another advantage is the environment which promotes thespianism, advanced craftwork, and Indian Lore. Not too many units really encourage advanced beadwork; but superb OA costumes call for some really good crafting.

 

The final in-Socuting advantage I see in the honor organizations is active mentorship. A Scoutmaster is typically working with 20-50 boys. Within my experience, the honor camping organizations, with stable adult support around them (be they advisers or leaders), can surge role models and mentors for young men to fall in on.

 

If we had more of the older, long service Scoutmasters of the Fred MacMurray "Follow Me, Boys" model, maybe this advantage would nullify. As it is, we've got a lot of units out there with relatively new folks ... who take a couple years of experience after training to get from good to excellent.

 

Out of Scouting, in my neck of the woods the honor organizations are one tremendous network. I've seen real jobs (IT, Engineering, Law, architecture) happen because the young college graduate and the hiring partner are both in the same honor organization. It's happened locally for both organizations.

[scoutldr]

"Then again I may not understand the whole purpose. I know about cheerfull service, but rarely do I see it displayed, rather I see elitist attitudes by those who are not close to elite anything. Then again, its my opinion, I may be wrong"

 

That's what I used to say about Wood Badge...before I met you guys! Just kidding.

 

The traditions of the OA are rich and historical. I was elected in 1968. Back then, the Lodge was active, and wearing the flap was considered a high honor. We went to OA functions "on our own", not as a troop. We worked our butts off for the camp, raised funds and built some of the buildings. We were the primary source for camp staff. We were truly "brothers", like a fraternity, and bonded lifelong friendships across the Council and the country.

 

Today it seems the OA has lost it's shine. I've had scouts called out and never bother to go to the Ordeal (adults, too). No one goes to chapter meetings, unless we call and remind them, AND pick them up. Lodge-wide, participation is low. 80% of the members are just "flap-wearers" and have no other participation.

 

What did OA do for me? Even after a 30 year professional career, I sometimes stop myself and hear that little voice... "even in the midst of irksome tasks and weighty responsibilities"...then I continue on with a new attitude.

 

[skeptic]

"Today it seems the OA has lost it's shine. I've had scouts called out and never bother to go to the Ordeal (adults, too). No one goes to chapter meetings, unless we call and remind them, AND pick them up. Lodge-wide, participation is low. 80% of the members are just "flap-wearers" and have no other participation."

 

This has been tossed around in the OA section off and on. Over the years, as the mystery and more restrictive election qualifications have been eroded, the Order has become "common". Basically, become first class and have camping days and you have about a 95% chance of being elected unless the leader holds you out for some reason, or you have something going on at the troop level to keep you out. But, the idea that OA membership is special has been diluted to the point of being just another thing at a certain level. There will always be some who take the Order seriously, and work enthusiastically within their lodge and beyond. But, the specialness of it has, IMO, been watered down to the point of "ho-hum" for most who get elected; and the traditions have lost much of their luster.

 

This has happened in many areas of the program, not just the OA. Hopefully, there will be another sea change that will shove it back to some degree towards the honorary and mystical. One can hope anyway.

 

[eisely]

There may be something of an elitist attitude on the part of some OA members, but that, IMHO, is quite rare. The various honor societies, and there are many, do serve a valuable purpose in reinforcing the ideals of scouting, to say nothing of genuine service rendered.

 

Are the OA programs in particular always effectively executed? No more so than any particular troop always doing well. It is after all a human institution run by volunteers. One of the most telling statistics is the fact that few "ordeal" members show up a year later to get their "brotherhood" membership. Clearly there is a problem in motivating new members to be at least somewhat active.

[emb021]

"What is the purpose of having MOS or the OA? What role does it play in scouting? You may or may not have to excuse that I don't see a reason for either is a well run troop program. If the reason for these programs is to make up for a poor troop program, then I think taking scouts away fronm their unit is a poor fix."

 

Its never been the purpose of any scout honor/camper society to fix poor troop programs. That's the reason for the commissioner service.

 

There are as many reasons for such groups as there are groups themselves. Each one were established for different reasons.

 

Many such groups were strickly 'camp societies'. The many purpose (not sole) was to create continuity from camp season to camp season, to give the kinds a purpose and reason to come back. Thus, you could only join said society at summer camp, and the society had no purpose outside of camp.

 

Obviously, the founders wanted something beyond that, and so felt they should be targetting the best campers as candidates, and to give them a higher purpose and to help them even futher to become better scouts.

 

Thus, many of this groups whose purpose were originally limited to camp, because more year-round programs, but still tied to camp. Thus, many of the leadership of the group became the leaders of the camp, and vice-versa.

 

Also, many of these groups took on a strong service orientation, both at camp (camp based service projects, etc) and outside (OA has been doing this with AC5, encouraging lodge to do community service, etc.) and so on.

 

If you see elitist attitudes, its too often due to many not fully understanding (or learning) the real purpose of the org. This is true both amoung the kids as well as some adults. How many of these people even bothered to crack open the OA handbook and read it? How many bother to go to even a workshop within their lodge or at a section event and get a chance to really learn what the OA is all about? (I can say honestly that in my first 5+ years as an OA member I never did that myself, but never was an elitist).

 

I think, touch on skeptic's comments, that due to perseved issues of elistism, many of the restrictions and such on joining and progression has been dropped, and not always for the better.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

What has sealed my opinion about the OA is how the members react during Camporees or Klondikes. The OA usually runs a station, staffed by youth of course. When you visit the OA station, it is literally over run with youth standing around, talking, carrying on and pretty much making fun of the scouts in the competition, competition that they are not in, because they are staffing the station. I thought the first responsibility that an arrowman had was to his troop/patrol and that responsibility would be fulfilled best if the arrowman would give his patrol the benefit of his experience during the competition phase of the event. I see no reason for the OA to staff a competition station unless the disitrct is sorely lacking in Staff, and then only the minimum of people used. Having scouts wanting to aspire to be OA members so they can staff the station and not worry about the activtities is not my idea of honor. And the Adults enable this attitude by allowing the youth to stand around while the adults do the work