summer camp funding 09

[Lisabob]

I know it is early to be thinking about this, but with gas/energy, food, and everything else going up, I'm wondering how many families who have not struggled with the cost of summer camp until now, will be in a real bind next year.

 

Add to that, that our troop has a long-distance trip planned to a camp about 800 miles away for summer 2009 (Curtis Read). The camp looks amazing and has a fantastic high adventure program. The boys are very excited about it. I'm excited too but it is beginning to look expensive! I'm estimating that (with travel costs) the "typical" scout will owe about $450 and those who choose high adventure may owe about $600. Leaders will be in the $200-$250 range. This is a ballpark estimate only at this point.

 

In the past our troop has offered 2 fundraisers where all profits go into the sellers' scout accounts. Typically about 1/3 to 1/2 of the boys participate (and of those, only a handful really sell beyond immediate family members). We will of course continue those and push harder to get the boys to participate. Some families won't, but hopefully more will.

 

What about new scouts though? The cross-overs who join us in late Feb. typically come from 4-6 different packs. A few packs allow boys to carry over any money in their scout accounts, most don't. March is really too late to do much more fund raising with the troop since fees need to be turned in by the end of May. Typically, half our new scouts don't even make up their mind about going to camp until sometime in late April.

 

For those who decide early - Can we offer current W IIs who know for sure they want to join our troop, to participate in our fund raisers prior to joining? We would then create scout accounts for them in advance of them joining? (what if they change their minds?)

 

Should the troop as a whole subsidize the cost for new scouts, since they won't have as much opportunity to fund raise? (This raises a question of fairness - should we subsidize all scouts' participation by doing some "mandatory" troop fund raisers where all participants get an equal share?)

 

I need to start thinking of some creative ways to help families defray these costs. What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

Lisabob

Of course you know the Scouts and the families.

(And I don't!)

I do sometimes wonder if maybe we spend a little too much time worrying about the cost of things?

When I see what other organizations charge for camps and summertime activities and how parents can't wait to sign their kids up? I do think we tend to drive ourselves crazy for no reason.

I do believe that parents and Scouts are willing to spend money on what they see as being a quality program.

Talking as a parent, I'd sooner spent the extra and see my son have a wonderful time than spend the money on our Council camp ($260 for a week) and end up doing the same old same old.

"What about the cross-overs and the new Scouts ?" is an age old problem.

I'm sure that someone will post that taking them to the local camp, if you have enough leaders? Is an option.

While maybe having the Scouts participate in a First Year Camper program is not such a bad idea and the Scouts could benefit from it, I'm not sure having them not be part of the whole is such a good thing.

Having the details available to all the Dens that visit, would seem to be a good idea. But then again it might scare them away!!

While I'm sure that no one would really say anything. I have a feeling that youth who are not members of the Troop participating in a fund raiser which is done in the name of the CO might be seen by some as not exactly kosher! You might want to very discreetly ask your COR.

Eamonn.

[scoutmaster52]

Remind the boys that a scout is thrifty, a scout helps to pay his own way and that of others. We have had the same problems with fund raisers with only the same scouts and families showing up. It has gone to if you show up you get a share if you dont, you have to pay for it yourself. Who doesnt get tired of the few supporting the many. As far as the crossovers get the into Troop scout funds as soon as they become WII and invite them to help.

[NeilLup]

Your question about the new boys is an exceedingly good one.

 

We "know" (at least extremely strongly suspect) that boys who go to summer camp their first year are much more likely to remain with Scouting and to remain with the Troop. If those new boys get priced out of going to summer camp, your Troop may pay the price in a year or two if many members that year group of Scouts are no longer around.

 

How best to handle it is an interesting question. This is one of the problems that can come from allowing the older boys to decide where the Troop will go for summer camp to satisfy their desires and not take into account the needs of younger boys. Or from having the adults to decide to do something "more exciting."

 

I can only suggest that you not allow your Troop to be too fixated on "fairness" when it comes to who earned the money. The older boys/parents decided that they wanted this exciting trip. It is appropriate that they pay or earn full price for it. It is not appropriate to have the younger boys and new boys excluded from summer camp because they didn't participate in the many fundraisers which were held before they could join or to pressure them to join before they are ready to participate in the fundraisers.

 

I would suggest that the cost which each new Scout pays should be the cost of your local council's summer camp. The rest of the cost should be, in some way, covered by the Troop.

[Lisabob]

That's an interesting solution, Neil, and one I will think some more about.

 

A little more background - we don't have a council camp to go to, so it has become troop tradition that every other year we go to some other council camp nearby, and in opposite years, we take a "big" trip to a council camp far away. The troop has been to Georgia, North Carolina, New York, and Wyoming in the last decade for "far" trips, and Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio for "near" trips. Next year is a "big trip" year, though at the time to boys chose Curtis Read in NY, gas costs were not nearly as big a worry as right now.

 

Ironically, this business of being the "troop that travels" is both one of our hottest recruiting points and one of our stumbling blocks. Boys want to join us and go all over the place. Parents get excited about it too. But then they realize that little Johnny, who has never been gone for more than a weekend, is going half-way across the country and at considerable cost, and some new parents have second thoughts about sending their kids with us if their first year is a "big trip" year.

 

I've advocated subsidizing the cost of "big trip/first year" camps for several years now but others who never got that deal themselves, find it unfair and don't support it. I'm not sure how to win them over at this point.

 

Since gas will become a major portion of our troop expense next year, maybe I can work the angle of troop fundraisers specifically to pay for transportation, thus at least lowering the cost for new scouts (and others) by that much. Right now I'm estimating gas at $6/gallon (OUCH) and figure we'll need between $5000 and $6000 just for that.

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Lisa,

 

You're being properly prudent. I sent EagleSon on HS graduation band trip to Europe. Even with Plan A (early payment) and a signed contract, I was stuck for a fuel surcharge this spring. The Plan B (regular schedule) payment plan folk were stuck for 15% surcharge. Ouch

 

Some thoughts:

 

1) I think telling Web II parents early on "next summer is a big ticket year" is right. I'm not sure about your local economy, I have MI friends who've been laid off.

 

2) I think offering the fundraiser to those who commit early is a good idea! I'd check with Council Finance person about rules of fundraising...

 

3) When I was a Scout, (40 years ago now...EEEK!) my Troop did two camps each summer: If a Scout was not First Class, he went to wherever the Troop did Scout Camp. If he was 1st Class or above, he could go on a backpacking trip and/or go to Scout Camp. Would an option like that work for your troop?

 

Let us know how you decide...

[Eagledad]

This might be a balancing experience for your troop. I know that one of the spring boards that gave our troop a huge jump in numbers was our adventurous outdoor program, much the same as yours. New families always knew what they were getting in to when they joined and they were either financially willing or prepared to work hard on fundraisers. I cant ever recall anyone telling us they didnt join our troop because of cost. I can also say as things got more expensive, we started going every third year to council camp. That was about as much as we could stand.

 

Im betting your troop will pull things in just a bit, but your new scout numbers will remain consistent. Im not really in favor of subsidizing new scouts as that could lead to other issues. Providing fundraising opportunities was usually enough for most of our scouts. We did have funds for hardship families and used them often. If you allow Webelos to earn money in funraisers, be prepared and state up front what will happen in case they don't join your troop.

 

Barry

 

[kbandit]

Our troop meets with the Web II scouts before we start our fall fundraiser. We sell Christmas wreaths. We set up accounts for those selling and planning on joining our troop however if they change their minds and join another troop we will send a check to that troop for that scout. We will Not give the scout or parent a check. If the scout drops out without crossing over somewhere the troop absorbs the funds. Our crossover is also Feb.

 

We will not let them sell popcorn with the troop as they are still a member of a pack and for most packs this is their major source of fundraising.

 

One way to communicate with all the packs that come to your troop might be having them come to you by way of visiting during a meeting night and discussing the next summer camp and fundraising opportunities available to them. You might also get a kinda head count as to those interested in going.

[Lisabob]

kbandit, do you get any push back from people who say that boys who participate in your fall fundraiser (wreaths) and then join another troop are either taking advantage of you to do something that other troops don't allow, or taking sales away from boys who are already in, or actually do join, your troop? Aside from the book keeping issues that might be involved, these are the two arguments I'm anticipating. (And if you do get these, how do you combat them?)

 

John, MI economy where I am is awful and unlikely to improve this year. In fact I hate to be gloomy but I'm expecting it to get worse. No class of worker is guaranteed a job at this point. We've had people in formerly "safe" white collar jobs making 6 figure incomes get laid off, right along side the guys in the auto industry. It is just ugly.

 

 

[Eamonn]

Back in the day!!

One reason why the Troop I served grew so fast and so large was because we offered really interesting Summer Camps.

We used to load the Troop vans with all the equipment and the Scouts traveled by public transportation.

I am very worried about how the cost of things is going to hurt the families we serve.

To be honest the cost of gas is not really a big deal to me!! Sure I hate seeing it at around $4.00 a gal. But I have cut back and a tankful of gas lasts me about two weeks.

Someone in their infinite wisdom decided that our next District Meeting would be held up at camp. To my way of thinking this was just foolish and a waste of gas, so I sent my apologies along with an explanation stating that I thought it was silly and I didn't need a late night during the week!! The joys of old age?

Last winter I used about 1,200 gals of heating oil to heat our house. The most I paid was $3.45 a gal. Looking at the cost of heating oil this year it is already costing $4.30 a gal. I'm hearing that the cost of all fuels is going to go up. $5,000 to heat my house is a lot!! Add to this the losses in the market and the what seems the ever rising cost of food.

I can see that a lot of people are going to be cutting back.

A few years back I remember I had closed the restaurant for the night and deposited the takings in the night deposit box. I stopped at a convenience store for a cup of coffee. The lady who waited on me made a big fuss of me (Boy I loved that!!) She went on how her and her husband loved to stop in for our all you can eat crab leg special. I think at the time we were selling this for about $24.00. On the way home I said to Her Who Must Be Obeyed that at times we forget that someone earning minimum wage has to work a lot of hours to come up with the $50 or $60 needed to go out for a night.

While I think I would be willing to spend $600.00 on my son to attend summer camp. I can and do see that a lot of families just might not be able to afford it.

On the other side of the coin,I also see that trying to sell stuff to other people who might be feeling the pinch is also going to be an up-hill battle.

Sure $600.00 is only a little over the cost of a cup of coffee a day. But even Starbucks is having a hard time!

Eamonn.

 

[Eagledad]

>>Aside from the book keeping issues that might be involved, these are the two arguments I'm anticipating. (And if you do get these, how do you combat them?)

[Gunny2862]

Eagledad has it right again. Transparency so everyone knows what is going on helps. And it's great that you are looking ahead and looking out for the Scouts.

 

Would your Troop policies (or can you create new ones for this situation) possibly allow Webelos II prospects to work your fund raisers and allow them to use 100% of their account if they join your Troop, take 50% of their accounts with them if they do join another Troop(with proof of joining and the money going to the new Troops treasurer of course) and a receipt for donation at 100% of their account to those who choose not to cross over at all?

[Eamonn]

I'm still wrestling with how someone who isn't a member of the unit, which is owned by a CO can raise money?

The Troop is part of the CO's youth program, allowing non-members to raise funds in the name of the CO? Somehow just doesn't seem right.

Of course this could just be me!

Eamonn.

[Lisabob]

Actually Eamonn, I'm concerned about that too. I'm not sure it is kosher, although maybe less of a problem for boys coming from a pack that the CO also sponsors than for boys from non-CO packs. Our CO is thoroughly oblivious and seems to prefer to stay that way, but there's still this business of whether it is right. If any money they earn goes to the troop to be divvied up among participants later after cross-overs have joined, only given to (at that point) troop members? Then is it more defensible in your eyes?

[NeilLup]

I'm not particularly worried about this because the money is only "earned" in paper transfers. It isn't really "owned" by the Scout.

 

If you wanted to be a little bit "cleaner" you could say that if the boy joins your Troop, the money goes to his account. If he goes to another Troop, it goes to that Troop. If he doesn't join a Troop, it goes to his Cub Scout Pack.

 

I would also be incredibly careful about Gunny's suggestion of giving a "receipt" for a "donation>" That implies that the money is "earned" by the Scout and that he has some "ownership" of it. You really, really, really don't want to go there. I'm neither an attorney not an accountant, but I could see W-2s, tax forms, etc. if the money is really construed to be "earned" and a "donation" made.