Northern Tier questions

[Lisabob]

Can someone give me some additional info on Sommers Canoe Base/Northern Tier/Boundary Waters (are these all the same?) in MN? I've looked at the NT website and it seems as though this is purely a high adventure base. However I've also been told that there is a traditional BSA camp for younger scouts at Sommers. Is that right? I couldn't find any web links for it. If not, is there a traditional BSA camp nearby so that younger guys could have a BSA camp experience while the older guys went on a high adventure trip? All I could find on the web about Sommers was related to wilderness canoe treks.

 

And on that note...what's the difference (besides cost!) among the three canoe base options (1 in MN, 2 in Canada)?

 

Thanks for the info.

 

[GernBlansten]

Lisa,

I have no experience with Sommers, but 2 years ago we did Atikokan. Its purely a high adventure base, in existence only to support treks into Quetico Provincial Park and the Crown lands. No summer camps for younger scouts.

In 2009 we secured four crews to Bissett. Our guide in Atikokan told us Bissett is much like Atikokan, only better.

[GernBlansten]

On another note, I don't think they allow float planes in Sommers. You have the option for insertion into the wilderness by float plane from Atikokan for an additional fee. We did this, and it was a pretty cool experience. At Bissett, its not optional, but required, both insertion and extraction. Kinda defines the degree of wilderness each camp supports.

[BrentAllen]

Lisa,

I haven't been to NT yet, but we just booked a trip for summer, 2009. I did a little research in making the decision where we wanted to go, so I might be able to answer some of your questions.

 

I don't think NT offers anything other than HA trek programs during the summer. In the winter, they offer several different programs where individuals or small groups can attend.

 

For the summer treks, Charles Sommers is "ideally suited for novice canoeists, but offers challenging routes for experienced travellers as well." accoring to their marketing brochure. I believe the routes and campsites are more established around Sommers than they are in the other areas. Sommers has an emergency radio system covering a 62 mile area.

 

Rogert Canoe base in Canada offers the option to paddle the 8 passenger "canoes du nord" or north canoes on the historic trade routes. There are several entry points, including remote fly-ins (at additional cost).

 

Northern Expeditions are in Canada and I believe they all start with remote fly-ins. To go into Canada, a passport will be required.

 

We chose Sommers since this will be the first HA trip for the Scouts. I've talked to Scouters from local troops who have made this trip, and we are using their itineraries as a model. Wish I could give you more info, but that's all I have.

[infoscouter]

AFAIK - Northern Tier is strictly High Adventure. I keep meaning to drive out there when I go home and visit, but haven't made it out yet. The Boy Scouts I saw on the streets of Ely while growing up were transiting on their way to/from NT - I don't ever remember hearing anything about resident camp facilities there.

 

The local council in the area is the Voyageurs Area Council. www.vac-bsa.org. As far as I can see, they do not have a Boy Scout summer Camp. They do have camp facilities for rent, where younger boys could camp while an older group is on a canoe trip, but it looks like program would be up to the unit.

 

The closest Council operated camp that I'm aware of the the Twin Valley Council's Camp Cuyuna http://www.twinvalleybsa.org/cuyuna/index.html, near Brainerd - but that's 166 miles SW of Ely.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/ely+mn/38594+County+Road+3+Crosslake+MN+56442-3012/

 

Our (Northern Star) council's camps are even farther away, in Northwestern Minnesota or Northweatern Wisconsin. The other Minnesota council's camps are similar or greater distances from Ely.

 

If you wanted to "do it yourself" while part of the troop is at NT, the closest Minnesota State Park is Bear Head Lake: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/bear_head_lake/index.html, just outside of Ely.

 

[infoscouter]

Oh, and to answer your other questions.

 

Sommers Canoe base is one of the facilities with make up the Northern Tier High Adventure Bases. Sommers is the only one in the U.S. The other two facilities are in Canada.

 

The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness - BACAW adjoins Quetico Provincial Park, a Province of Ontario park. The BACAW is a federally protected wilderness area, administered by the National Forest Service:

 

"The Boundary Waters was recognized for recreational opportunities in 1926, named the Superior Roadless Area in 1938, the BWCA in 1958, and federally designated under The Wilderness Act in 1964. It wasn't until October 21, 1978, The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness Act was established to provide specific guidance for managing the million plus acres of the Superior National Forest.

 

The BWCAW has changed little since the glaciers melted. With over 1,500 miles of canoe routes, nearly 2,200 designated campsites, and more than 1,000 lakes and streams waiting, the BWCAW draws over 250,000 visitors each year. As part of the Superior National Forest, the BWCAW is managed by the US Forest Service."

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/superior/bwcaw/

 

Sommers Canoe base obtains permits from the Forest Service for the crews that enter the BWCAW, as do all outfitters who run trips in the area, or individuals who travel the area on their own. The Forest Service has strict limits on how many individuals may travel on a single permit, and controls where the groups travel in order to preserve the wilderness experience, spreading visitors over the wilderness area as much as possible.

 

The BWCAW is a total wilderness area, and no motorized vehicles are permitted in 99.9% of the wilderness (there are some small fringe areas where you can use a small motor).

 

Quetico Provincial Park is managed by the province of Ontario, and has slightly different rules. They allow fly-in trips involving float planes, which are not possible in the BWCAW. http://www.ontarioparks.com/ENGLISH/quet.html

Fly in trips are offered by the Atikokan (Rogert Canoe Base) in portions of the park.

 

The Bisset Programs are also fly-in, but the destination for those trips is into the province of Manitoba. This area is not contiguous with the BWCAW or the Quetico Provincial Park, as far as I can tell.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Thanks for the information so far. Infoscouter, I was actually on the Cuyuna website checking it out this morning! Looks like a nice camp and I appreciate their emphasis on the patrol method. I kind of wonder how that works out for new first-year scouts. A couple of other folks mentioned Many Points, which looks like it is maybe 200-250 miles from Ely. We actually have enough adults so that the boys could split and have some go to camp while others do high adventure, if that's what the boys end up choosing.

[infoscouter]

Many Point is one of our two long term Boy Scout camps. It is indeed about that distance from Ely. If you travel to Minneapolis-St. Paul as one group and then split up, it will take the Ely bound group about 3.5-4 hours and the Many Point group will have 5-6 hours of driving ahead of them.

 

Many Point is a great camp. My boys went for several years, and one year we went up with our youngest and camped in the Family camp, while the older two were camping with the troop. It's a large camp, so there are many program opportunitines. There are three camping styles offered - full dining hall, full patrol cooking, and a "hot stacks" option. In the last, they do patrol cooking for breakfast & lunch and then hot meals are delivered to the camp site in insulated containers.

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/Camping/Facilities/ManyPoint/Facilities.aspx

 

[GernBlansten]

The real neat thing about Rogerts (Atikokan), is we took the seaplane option. The sea planes pick you up at the base with all your gear crammed inside and a couple of canoes strapped to the floats. You land in the wilderness, unload the plane in the middle of a lake, and bam, you start your adventure. You don't see a power boat, sea plane, or any sign of technology for 7-10 days. The last day, you start your path back to civilization, heading north, a few portages and suddenly you are paddling through lakes with houses and houseboats. Fisherman in power boats. Seems so foreign. Then to the waiting school bus for transport back to base. Highly recommend it.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Lisabob,

 

Our guys did Northern Tier in 2005 (Charles Rogert Canoe Base in Atikokan, Ontario, Canada). They thoroughly loved it, and we recommend it highly. As I recall, it was a high-adventure only base, and I don't know about the other Northern Tier bases.

 

FYI, the Greater Cleveland Area Council also has a high adventure canoe base located along the French River in Ontario, Canada. It's called Tinnerman Canoe Base, and here is a link to the leader's guide. Hope your guys find one that's right for you.

 

http://www.gccbsa.org/Forms/Tinnerman/2008_Leader_Guide.pdf

 

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

Hi Lisa,

 

After a little more research on Northern Tier, I found that their winter OKPIK program has a Cabin Stay program for younger scouts.

 

This program is for younger scouts that are accompanying a group of older scouts, or visiting OKPIK on their own. Program includes skiing, snowshoeing, dog sled rides, and other winter activities. The group will stay in heated cabins and cook their meals outside. This program is open to any registered Scout youth member. The cost is $110.00 for the weekend, or $55.00 per day. Maybe this will work for your gang.

 

Check it out here:

 

http://www.ntier.org/okpik.html

 

 

[Lisabob]

Thanks for the info on the okpik program, but as Ely MN is about a 900 mile drive from "home" for us, I think we'll stick to summertime trips to the area! That's one heck of a weekend camping trip otherwise...

 

At any rate our new venture patrol leader floated the idea of going to NT next summer and the boys all thought that was very cool. But they also want to learn scuba and they thought Sea Base was cool too. So we'll see what they end up deciding. Thanks again to everyone for input.