When do we call for help?

[Lisabob]

Not wanting to hijack this thread but actually I think this is within the confines - Beavah posts what sounds like excellent advise re: HIPAA language on the med release forms. For those of us in units where nobody is a health care professional or a lawyer specializing in medical malpractice type stuff, some further advice would be most welcome. I really doubt our standard forms have anything like this on them (I think we just use the BSA class I/II/III forms). What language passes muster? Examples, sources, etc.?

[SWScouter]

Lisabob, those are my thoughts too.

[CalicoPenn]

Back when I was at Matagamon Base, in addition to my full time job, I was also the bases Health Officer since I was the only EMT on staff (EMT-P). Part of my job was to review the health forms coming in, and to take every adults vitals (blood pressure, respiration, pulse) to compare them with the Doctor's readings on the forms they turned in - if the difference in readings was too great, there was a potential for the adult to be required to be left behind (fortunately, that never happened).

 

During set-up week, I met with the local emergency room folks (local being about 1 1/2 hours away) to establish radio protocols for consultation. If my services were ever needed (and there were a couple of ocassions when it was), tele-radio contact was made with the emergency room so that I was operating properly under the control of a Doctor. Note that I met with the emergency room - not just the local family practitioner (who was much closer to the camp). The reason is most local practioners aren't fully up on trauma or emergency health issue protocols.

 

Most camps are much better off with an EMT in the first aid hut than an RN (and I'm not trying to tick off any RN's) unless the RN is a Trauma RN. EMT's and Trauma RN's are trained in dealing with trauma and emergency medicine. Most RN's have limited trauma experience and training - great for monitoring meds, vitals, and handling minor first aid needs, but not trained to deal with trauma and emergency assessments. LongHaul - I'll bet dollars to donuts that your camps RN wasn't a trauma nurse - a trauma nurse or EMT would have performed an physical, hands on assessment for possible injuries to the lads chest and internal organs and would more often than not catch something that would tell them to send the lad off to the emergency room.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to avoid the first aid hut if it has competent staff - and to answer LongHaul's original question - if in doubt, seek immediate help - either from your camp's EMT or from the emergency room.

 

Calico

[milwscout580]

I was the Health Officer at my camp... The camp was less than 10 minutes from an ER, so my training only had to be that of a First Responder, which is what most police officers and non-EMT firefighters are (one level lower than EMT)

 

Regarding "bypassing" the First Aid staff, I don't believe that's a good idea. The Health Officer, as well as the camp Director, need to be informed of every medical issue in camp that is larger than a minor bump or scrape. It should be logged in the first aid book, even if the log simply says that the leader took the Scout to the ER.

 

I would personally have wanted to at the very least know what was going on during the incident, not after, when the scout returned from the ER.

 

Another question regarding this, is calling 911 (or whatever the emergency number may be). I thought it was odd that I (as Health Officer) did not have permission to call 911. The only people that had permission were the Camp Director and Ranger. The only reason I can think of this is so the Camp Director knows what's going on. Does anyone have any other reasons why the Health Officer could not call 911?

[Beavah]

Does anyone have any other reasons why the Health Officer could not call 911?

 

Yah, I dislike rules like this. Another shot at substitutin' rules for judgment.

 

That bein' said, some camps in some places have their own medical protocols in place, or prior letters of agreement with respondin' agencies and providers. So, for example, a camp might have a private contract with a local ambulance company and should use that first instead of county dispatch. Some camps have EMT's on staff (perhaps the ranger) who are operatin' under county medical control and through a memorandum of agreement are to be the first responders at the camp. That kind of stuff.

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

As I've said before, we've (meaning I have) taken Scouts to the ER with nothing more than the BSA med form and have received treatment without having get the parents on the phone first.

 

The Girl Scouts love paperwork and, as I recall, their permission slips don't look much different than the BSA med forms.