When did summercamp change?

[gwd-scouter]

Camp Old Indian in the Blue Ridge Council offers four different programs. Pathfinder program is designed for 1st year Scouts and puts them into patrols and works throughout the week on T-1st class skills. Most 2nd and 3rd Year campers work on merit badges and there are a tremendous variety from which to choose. The next two programs are available for Scouts at least 1st class and 14 years or older: Adventure to Eagle offers some high adventure stuff (rock climbing, white water) along with a couple of merit badges. The High Adventure Program is aimed at older Scouts (again, at least 14 and 1st class) and is operated off site with only high adventure activities.

 

Over the years I have encouraged our older Scouts to do ATE or High Adventure and have had no takers. Older Scouts either have chosen not to go to camp at all or take merit badges they need for rank advancement (read, Eagle-required). Last year was the first year our guys showed interest in doing something different. We took the troop on a whitewater trip on Friday, leaving camp early in the morning and returning by dinner time. Yeah, they missed out on the campwide activities and inter-troop competitions, but they loved it and want to do it again this summer. A couple of the guys have also said they are going to sign up for ATE or High Adventure for this summer coming up. This is a huge change in our Troop, from older Scouts only interested in advancement to now wanting to get the most out of the journey.

 

Every night after dinner at COI is free time: archery, rifle/shotgun range, free swim, row and canoe, snorkeling, kayaking, hiking, scoutcraft, whatever the guys want to do. For next year, some of our older guys have talked about backpacking one evening to one of the remote campsites and camping overnight, returning in the morning for breakfast. Why not?

 

Yes, COI runs a very tight schedule during the day and the waterfront, shooting range, etc. are not open except for boys working on merit badges in those areas. But, nothing says a troop can't go off-site once in a while during the week.

[Gold Winger]

I too am somewhat disappointed in the summer camp merit badge mill model.

 

Part of it is the instructors, part of it the kids, and part the parents and their expectations.

 

When I was a youngster, a popular activity for boys was building models. We'd spend hours sanding, trimming, gluing and painting them. We'd even modify the kits and make custom jobs, some ugly some not. Now kit are given snap-together models that take 15 minutes to assemble and have press-on decals. No attention span for detail.

 

An old Scouter that I know proudly wears the neckerchief slide that he made for woodcarving mb. It is a work of art, a woodsman's head that it carved, sanded and painted.

 

Now at summercamp, if the Scout just rounds off the edges of the slide kit, he gets credit. In leatherworking, the counselor holds up pieces of leather and tells what they are, no finding leather items and identifying them. Then they pound their initials into a piece of leather and they are done. It is all hurry, hurry, hurry . . . get done as soon as possible.

 

I'll spend the week at camp on a slide or a belt and both the counselors and boys are amazed by it. They're okay but not works of art but I hear, "Wow! How did you do that." Simple, I took my time.

 

Music and sports both took about an hour at summer camp.

 

I'd like a summer camp model where it isn't classroom oriented. Instead the boys would do stuff during the day like hike, canoe, etc. wander around learning about trees. then at the end of the week, they could go take a test if they wanted to and get the merit badge. If done right, they wouldn't even realize that they were earning merit badges until it was all over.

 

Of course the parents want the merit badges even more than the Scouts do. You have to have something to show for your $200. Fun doesn't count.

 

I actually met a Scouter who was looking for a new summer camp because the one where we were had too much "fun stuff." His statement was, "If I'm taking these boys to summer camp, they aren't going to have fun."

 

Fun with hidden learning.

[Eagle1982]

Where I did summercamp in the late 70's early 80's, all troops did their own cooking, there was no dining hall. You carried your personal gear to your site, as it was not car accessible (the pontoon boat brought the troop gear). You only had time to work on one or maybe two merit badges the whole week. However, everyone gained actual experience cooking, gained experience in the axeyard...

 

It's sad you run into kids with the cooking MB yet still can't cook on a campout. I'm all for earning merit badges, but I'm also all for gaining experience on the routine stuff.

 

The summercamp now has merit badge blocks. Kids show up to camp, drive their stuff to the site, and show up and get their patch. It is different.

[Eagle69]

Even back in tail end of the 60's Summer Camp was the prime place to earn the Outdoor Merit Badges. We ONLY had dinning halls back then. I don't think you should be teaching Citizenship and some of these other badges at camp. We only had small windows, usually late afternoon when the pool and rifle range weren't being used for classes and were available for free swim or shoot. A lot of the problems/complaints now are tied back to the fact that we have a generation that had everything given to them and never really had to struggle to earn something. They came from the era of everybody got an award as opposed to only the top 3 because we didn't want to hurt little Johnny's feelings or they were passed on something with minimum effort. When I was a camp counselor if you didn't do it right you didn't get credit. I had an area director that had the same philosophy and that helped.

[ElyriaLeader]

I don't remember summer camp in the 70's as Merit badge factories, if it had anything to do with the outdoors (other than winter sports/camp Alaska)or handicrafts, it was taught at summer camp. I also remember that to earn a merit badge you had to KNOW how to do something with PROFICIENCY, not just a glossing over!, my first year at camp I took home 3 partials, cooking, archery, swimming, and finished the cooking, and swimming later that year, the archery badge took me 3 years at summer camp to finish (had a tough time with the 20 yard targets and making the bowstring) although now it seems as if either the requirements are easier or the scouts are not being trained to a high degree of PROFICIENCY, but I digress...I was going to say that, even though there are set times set aside for the merit badge classes pretty much all of the areas at our council camp have open times in the a.m. and p.m. for those scouts not working on a badge to participate in, not to mention intertroop competitions, or just lazing around the campsite (something I've found popular with some older scouts) is this so different from when we went as kids? Was is good enough for you? And if so why isn't good enough today?

[Horizon]

I went to Tom Hale and Bob Garland in the late 70s / early 80s. They were merit badge oriented then as well - you could take 3 in the morning, have lunch and free swim, and then 2 more. After that you were free to still run around the pond at Garland on the canoes, or try to dam up the stream that went by the camp with rocks while watching for water mocks.

 

I remember having fun and taking outdoor merit badges.

 

Then again, it would nice to see the badges only held in the mornings, with the afternoons free for more activities.

[Herms]

A lot of camps here in the Rockies (Camp Cris Dobbins and Camp Frank Rand come to mind) offer adventure programs (usually aimed at older boys - 14 and up). Instead of working on merit badges, they go on a horseback trek, mountain bike runs, backpacking, rock climbing/rapelling etc.

 

If you are wanting to do something like this for younger boys, save your summer camp money and hit the mountains yourself or put on your own week long camp with a different activity each day. The boys will really enjoy that also.

[Knot Head]

Kia Kim is in Hardy Arkansas so it's not too far to drive from northern from Texas. They have two camps. One with a mess hall and one where you cook your own food.

 

You may view it as a MB factory since they do offer a large number of MBs. All are taught by college kids or adults.

 

We don't find we have much free time at Kia Kima. Every night there is stuff to do.

 

Older guys usually do Mountain Man or Cope while younger guys do MB. We try to encourage them to do "summer camp" MBs like Canoeing, Archery, Swimming, Sailing, Rowing, Env. Science. Stuff that is just more easily and efficiently done at summer camp.

http://www.kiakima.com/home.shtml

 

Besides MB's

Trailblazer Program (TF to 1st Class skills). Take as a class or go to the open sessions at night.

COPR

Ozark Ultimate Trek

Mountain Man

Ozark Climbing School

Mountain Boarding

Twilight Troop Canoe Trips - after MB classes are over

NYLT

 

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[Sprite]

I met a Troop from Texas at Kia Kima last year. They decided to come there because of the Adventure offerings, then when they signed up every one of the boys signed up for the Merit badges... Go figure

Expectations are to give the boys an easy access to the Merit Badges--particularly the Eagle required ones. The troops that go to Kia Kima debate every year on which is better the cook your own or dining hall.

Out of 6 merit badge slots, scouts can choose to do non-badge or adventure badge work. COPE for example is 3 slots. Swimming is 2 slots. Whitewater is offered too and yes there are extra fees for some of the activities. For freetime adventure activities they have Mountain Skateboarding (don't let your over protective aka helicopter parents know about this one!)

[Eagle69]

Kia Kima is operated by the Chickasaw Council out of Memphis, TN and is located on the banks of the Spring River.

 

There is also Blass Scout Reservation operated by the Quapaw Council. It is located in North Central Ark above Conway.

http://www.quapawbsa.org/facilities/blass/

 

Camp Orr on the Buffalo River operated by the Westark Council.

http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=3300&orgkey=1154

 

Camp Pioneer operated by the Caddo Council

http://www.camppioneer.org/

 

Camp Ross Rhodes operated by the Ouachita Area Council

http://www.ouachitabsa.org/camp.html

[shortridge]

Re: factory issues...

 

I'm sure this debate has taken place many, many times before, but I'd like to offer my two bits.

 

Please also consider the pressure by some leaders to have their Scouts passed, or else. That can definitely contribute to a factory atmosphere. If 15- and 16-year-old first-time summer camp instructors worry about getting flack from Scouters, there's a definite motivation there (and not a good one).

 

Some badges don't take a full week to earn - look at Basketry. On the flip side, there are some badges that just shouldn't be taught at a summer camp - without a prominent caveat at the start that students will be going home with a blue card. Some are just too advanced to get finished in five hour-long periods with a class of 15 Scouts of different skill levels. If you have experienced Scouts, it's different.

 

I'd include Wilderness Survival and Pioneering among those. Scouts (and Scouters) who come to camp with the expectation they're going to earn those badges just because they show up for class need to have their expectations adjusted. If you have to spend two days on knots because half the class can't tie a bowline, let alone do a good square lashing, you're not going to get a solid, respectable project done by Friday afternoon without cutting some corners.

 

That said, most of the offerings at a summer camp ARE structured, which makes some sense from the council perspective.

 

- Paying a staffer to hang out at an outdoor skills area and wait for people to stumble by and ask questions about cooking isn't a good use of resources from a financial standpoint. There's also not much of a "measureable" there compared to the camp up the road that reports that 270 Scouts earned Cooking, 310 Scouts earned Rifle Shooting, 670 Scouts earned their Totin' Chip.

 

- If you have 50 Scouts show up to the pool, and 10 just want to splash around, 10 need instructional lessons, 10 want to earn Swimming MB, 10 want to learn to snorkel and 10 want to earn BSA Lifeguard, you might have a problem if you only have four lifeguards/instructors. (Forgive me in advance - I don't know the details of Safe Swim Defense. This is only offered as a hypothetical example of how you need to plan for staffing levels.)

 

These are simplified examples, to be sure, but hopefully the picture comes across clear. I'm not saying I agree with that mindset, but when you're managing a camp of 400+ people, you've got to draw the lines somewhere.

 

That said.... the question was asked: What can Scouts do outside classes? My answer: Anything they can do on a regular campout, on a much grander scale. The reservation where I camped and later worked is 1,400 acres. Less than a quarter of that property is developed, meaning there are miles and miles of trails to explore - perfect for patrol outings. The camp now offers mountain biking and an inline skating ramp (wouldn't have been my choice, but hey, to each his own), plus an off-camp high adventure boating trek.

 

I'd also like to have seen a troop take charge of its program - using the resources, facilities and supplies at the main camp to organize its activities instead of being spoon-fed them. Believe me, the staff would think it's great! Troops and patrols can organize unplanned inter-camp competitions (SPL, see your commissioner), set up an impromptu midway to share skills rather than be taught by some higher authority, get gung-ho about campsite inspections, have a gadget competition, go on a survival overnight, ask to sign out canoes during the sailing class and go for a patrol paddle-and-fishing trek... really, the list is endless.

[jstratton]

Checkout Cedarlands Scout Reservation. Flexible patrol cooking program. Great staff. Beautiful location. In-camp or out-of-camp treks. www.ADKventures.org www.rtcbsa.org