Not going to Council Camp = Not Supporting Council?

[OldGreyEagle]

Not that your COuncil camp doesnt "exhibit a vacuum", but if you havent been there for 7 years, how would you know? If you went there 8 years ago and havent been back, are you 19 now? In which case you dont need a Venture Patrol, you need a Venturing Crew.

 

I understand that if a COuncil doesnt have a quality program, the Troops get to vote with their feet, but to not experience it after 7 years and then say it "exhibits a vacuum" may be not quite right

[J-dawg168]

Sorry for the confusion, I have only been with my current troop for 3 years. So 3 years ago i went to our Council camp. I am 14, not 19. I have friends in other troops who haven't gone elsewhere, and still say it isn't a good camp.

 

Hopes this clears it up!

[packsaddle]

This thread came back to life just in time for some to reconsider their summer choices, but for most it is too late. But the topic could be re-named, "Central Authority Meets Market Economy".

The troops are free to make their decisions. In reality, councils don't have as much influence over the troops as they do over their camps. The easier thing to do if they want 'customers' is to provide a competitive product. The 'customers' will make their decisions for all the various reasons customers make such decisions but ultimately, if the product doesn't live up to expectations, the vendor (councils) should expect to be outcompeted by better products.

I just love this Darwinian world.

[Pack378]

Posted: Tuesday, 7/24/2007: 5:29:44 PM

I love old threads!!!!!!!

 

My advice is pretty much everybody else's.... Go where you want but remember you could be leaving the boys with out an OA experience...

[John-in-KC]

Pack378,

 

Depends on the Lodge.

 

My Council's Lodge offers 3 induction weekends, induction during its 3 Scout Camp sessions, and 1 Special needs induction session.

[scoutmaster52]

At a campout this weekend cornered by the Ranger, asked where we were going to Scout Camp. I let him know and was told shame on me for not supporting the councils camp. At the same campout a member of councils upper mgmt taold it didnt matter as long as we were going to summer camp. Talk about mixed messages.

Just to let you konow my answer to the ranger was with the current state of camp and gas prices travel to our camp 5 hours away didnt make sence with 10 other camps closer with quality programs.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

When you say "member of councils upper mgmt" do you mean on the volunteer side or the Professional side?

 

The Ranger could be in the position of knowing there are multiple camps closer to the Council that the Councils camp and is feeling a bit insecure with his employment position. Not a good reason to try a guilt trip on you, but I understand his motivation

[Eamonn]

I really like our camp.

I have a lot of things to be thankful for, because of the camp.

It was the camp that first brought me to the USA.

It was there I met my wife and also met a lot of super people who are my friends today.

I'm not very handy!!

At one time I thought you needed a PhD in construction to be an active Lodge member! The Lodge does a great job of looking after and maintaining the camp.

We don't have a Ranger.

Over the years I kinda suppose some of the money I have donated might have made its way to the camp.

We have had staffs that were really great.

As a rule these guys are on the staff for about 3-4 years and then move on to bigger and better paying jobs. Sometimes the replacements are not as good.

We have had problems with the food. But these were looked at and corrected.

Yes I love the camp.

But...

I do see how a Lad who has attended camp for 3 or more summers does feel the need to go someplace else and try new activities or just see how things are done elsewhere.

Nearly all the Troops in the Council do support the camp by going each and every year.

They sign up for the same week, same site year after year.

I really think that the Scouts have no say in it.

The sad thing is that what should be the high-light or high-point of the Scouting year, becomes the same old same old for the older Scouts and they just quit.

We do depend on out of council campers/Troops to help the camp break even.

I think that not going to the camp because the Scouts have opted to go elsewhere is fine and dandy.

But not going because of some personal whatever that happened in the past is something that the person needs to reflect upon.

Councils can't do a thing to a unit that doesn't go to their camp.

I did hear a few comments when a pal of mine who decided to camp for several years at the camp down the road ran by the Council down the road received a Silver Beaver. Some said that it didn't seem right that someone who didn't support the camp should receive the award. Of course the fact that he got it only goes to show this wasn't everyone's opinion.

Eamonn.

 

[FScouter]

Wouldn't it be grand if it was the council down the road that awarded the SB?

[scoutmaster52]

OGE, As far as the upper mgmt it was a pro. as far as the ranger feeling insecure, he is the long standing ranger of the council and runs the "cub/weekend" camp.

[Apache Bob]

In the distance past when I was a SM our Troop went one year to the Council camp and the next OOC. The boys loved going to different summer camps so they could see and experience new things. I thought it was great because after awhile when you see the Scouts run through the wood at night without a flashlight, because they know where are the trees are - you start to think you have been there to many times.

In my current Troop the younger Scouts go to the Council camp while the older Scouts go to a different camps (OOC) that have a high adventure program.

[Vigil-Hiker]

My son's troop goes to different Summer Camps - little choice since our Council only runs cub scout day camps at 2 our council camps and does cub scout over-night at the third camp. The reason is the dining halls will not meet state regulations for a week long scout camp program.

 

They would need to tear down the working, original 50 year old dining hall and build a new in one of the camps. This one has a lot of history in it. Funds are also a big issue. We are in year two trying to complete the first new cabin in 40 years in camp. This new one is designed to be handicap friendly for wheel chair access. Funds ran out on the building the fireplace and completing the interior.

 

We may have a kid with CP moving up to our troop next year. A handicap accessible cabin would make it easier for him to attend some camp outs - tenting it would be too difficult for him.

 

Our troop does a mix of same site and backpacking trips for our camp outs. For instance, this weekend they are backpacking several miles of the Appalachian Trail. Last month went out of council to an extreme sports weekend - rifle, shotgun, archery, rappelling, and mountain biking. Food was in dining hall.

 

Our troop OA members, work in our camps on the work and Induction weekends. So we put in time and work at our camps. Just little program at them for the Boy Scouts - about 2-3 weekends a year.

 

So we only really get to practice the patrol method on our own camp outs and events. Now we are traveling 5-6 hours(one way) to go to summer camp. Thanks NY state. And they wonder why boys drop out after a couple years in Boy scouts.

 

 

[NeilLup]

I see the opposite side of this. In our part of the country, we have a number of smaller councils, each with its own camp. There is, quite frankly, an overcapacity in camping spaces considering the total number of Scouts available in all councils. So there is poaching and atealing of campers by councils.

 

We are expected to keep our summer camp running, losing money every year, yet many of our units quite aggressively refuse to even consider our council's camp. We have tried very hard to improve our camp quality, staff quality, etc. but we have great difficulty competing with two outstanding camps run by other councils which are the same distance away as our council's camp. Yet when closing our camp is suggested, the result resembles the scene of the angry villagers with pitchforks and firebrands out of the movie Frankenstein.

 

So are you not supporting your council by not going to your council's camp? If you occasionally go out of council, no. If you steadfastly refuse to go, that's another matter. And in that latter case, I believe you have a strong obligation to support your council financially and to make clear that if your council then wants to close and sell the camp, you support that action. You can't have it both ways.

[Gold Winger]

My son's troop had a bad experience at the council camp about ten or tweleve years ago and started going to another council's camp. After ten years of that, our DE browbeat the PLC (she actually came to the PLC) into "choosing" the council camp. The day we showed up, the boys looked around and said, "this place is a pit, we're not coming back." Only one boy had a positive comment and that was that the tents were new. The food was bad, the program was up to what we were used to, and the facilities were poor.

 

How many ruined summer camp experiences do we need to give the council?

[scoutldr]

I would never have allowed a Professional visit our PLC to do a sales pitch. That's not the DE's job. That being said, did the PLC invite the DE back to provide feedback (it's a gift!)? The Council Camping committee needs to know what it is that scouts value in a summer camp experience (if they're not asking, they're not doing THEIR jobs).