More than one POR

[yarrow]

Can a boy hold more than one POR? I think my boy has been although maybe not. He has been Bugler for the troop, but has also been a Den Chief. They don't really conflict so he has been doing both. Don't know if that works on paper. He wore the Bugler patch until he was trained and now wears the Den Chief patch and cord.

[OldGreyEagle]

I dont know if its correct either, but in our troop one boy is AO troop representatve and ASPL as well, so it does happen. I think Den Chief and almost anything else would not conflict as well as any combination I cant think of. As long as they dont conflict, I dont see a problem.

[Chippewa29]

It is actually a fairly common occurance, especially in small troops. Often, kids need to "double up" on positions in order for everything to get done. I've very rarely seen someone that is a bugler (very specialized position) not have another position. I think the problem comes when there are qualified Scouts that don't have a position while other Scouts have two positions. For example, one Scout is a patrol leader and troop librarian, while another qualified Scout has no position.

[Bob White]

The Patrol Method is designed so that every scout in a troop can have a position. The greatest benefit is that every boy can then have a specific responsibility to his patrol or troop. It is far mor difficult for a boy to miss a meeting or event if he feels personally needed for the unit to function well.

 

It is difficult for many adults to perform two leadership roles simutaneously even after all their years of learning opportunities. Imagine the difficulty a child has, as he is just learning leadership, to try and do two or more jobs. I would be very hesitant to put such a burden on a young boy.

 

Bob

[shemgren]

The problem in small troops is that there often isn't enough Scouts to fill all of the postions that are listed in the literature. Many of the leaders of these small troops are frustrated with the situtation. To overcome, they often give Scout multiple jobs.

 

The only positions that a Scout can double up on are den chief and bugler, while holding other postitions with in the troop. In an ideal troop, every Scout should only have one position. But as stated above, this isn't always possible.

 

The SM should strive to having one Scout, one job. In a Troop where this is not happening, the prime goal of SM and the PLC to work on recruitment to gain more members to broaden the troop program.

[yarrow]

The Bugler position was originally a LOT of work. He had to complete the badge and memorize a bunch of calls. He also did bugling for 4 months and since then for COHs and at summer camp. However during the winter they have only had him play "To the colors" at Courts and so he really is only heavily involved in the Den Chief (and how). I think at least in this case it works and if ANYONE else wanted Bugler I am sure he would step down.

Sounds better outside by the way.

[Bob White]

As I understand the program, the goal is not to fill all the positions but to give each scout a position of responsibilitry as a tool to teach leadership.

Bob

[jmcquillan]

I'll second Bob's last post. The goal is not to fill each and every position available to the Scouts...especially in small troops. Small troop, and all troops for that matter, should focus on the positions that are quite necessary for the running of the troop. Bugler, Historian, and Librarian are not quite as important as SPL, ASPL, and PL. If the troop gains sufficient numbers to man all the positions, that's wonderful. Otherwise, focus on those that are necessary, and the number of Scout available to fill them. Let the others go until numbers and experience are available for them. Doubling up on positions is something I've seen, but I discourage. The Scout should focus on the needs of his one and only position, even if it's seen as a no-brainer. Doing the one job very well is better than doing two at less than 100%.

 

[bigbeard]

Small Troops do have special challenges. You do the best you can. No boy is allowed to take on more than he can handle, but he is allowed to TRY. If it becomes too much, he is usually the one that makes the call to ease up.

 

BTW, Historian and Scribe work well together. Strong attendance and good word skills make for a fine scrapbook.

[Chippewa29]

In my troop, we have a PL (only one patrol right now), troop guide, scribe, librarian, historian, and QM. The only who doesn't do much is the librarian (that will change once we get more kids working on MB). We don't have an APL because the position would be honorary, as the PL is able to handle the duties of his job for the most part. I'll definitely agree with the idea that the Scouts should get positions when they are ready for them. I'm currently in that debate with the dad of our challenge Scout. The kid (almost 13) isn't responsible enough to remember his book and hat at the end of the meeting or write down the annoucements for himself at troop meetings. Therefore, I don't think he should get a position until he learns the responsibility for himself. However, his dad thinks that the only way to learn responsibility is to be given it (he wants me to give his son a position).

[Bob White]

Chippewa29,

I agree with dad. Nobody learns to swim by standing on the edge of the pool and watching. They have to get in the water. Leadership is no different. It's the Scoutmaster's primary responsibility to train Junior Leaders. Some scouts will learn leadership at a different pace than others, but that doesn't change our responsibility to them.

 

Consider letting the Patrol Leader choose an Assistant. Even if the PL is doing fine, someone needs to be ready to stand in for him when he is absent. Then let the scout who needs a position take over for the position of the scout who became the APL.

 

He may need more coaching than the other boys, but that's what the program is there for.

 

Bob

[sctmom]

Now that I've had time to catch my breath from the weekend camping trip, I have time to think about some of what I saw.

 

I watched along with a few other new parents as our son's patrol struggled. The PL has been a new scout for 1 year. He is PL for one of 2 new scout patrols. He is a challenge scouts in many ways. His assistant is also a challenge scout. They both have ADHD. So they are distracting each other! They are good kids and trying but if anyone speaks to the PL he forgets what he was doing. Much less try to keep up with what 9 other kids are doing.

 

It was painful to watch. Sunday morning turned into a 3-hour clean up fiasco. But I think the PL learned a lot. I think everyone did. The boys had been running all over this guy for the whole weekend. After 3 hours of "cleaning", the PL started sounding a little more authoritative. I have never seen this boy much until this weekend. There was a marked difference between Friday evening and Sunday afternoon in his leadership. Will he remember it today? Maybe. Will he remember it later? Maybe, maybe not. It may take many repeats of this situation for him to realize he is RESPONSIBLE for the patrol. Making sure they all get to eat, making sure they all do their part of clean up, showing them how to do these things. He wanted to do good, he was trying so hard, but just is distracted so easily.

 

Some of the boys kept saying "well so-and-so is not over here doing what he should be". So, go get him! Go get your PL! None of the boys have ever had that responsibility on them either. They've always been told to go to the teacher or be quiet. Natural leaders started emerging. It was an interesting site to watch.

 

Some of the new parents got upset. I kept trying to talk to them about the learning by doing part of this. I think the Scoutmasters tried to talk to them about it. So, when you put the challenge scout in that position of leadership, you might want to remind the other parents of how Boy Scouts work or be ready for their comments.

 

I thought about could this boy have done better if he didn't have new scouts in his patrol. I don't think so. The more experienced scouts would either take over for him, ignore him or even ridicule him. The new scouts don't know any more than he does, they are younger and they are physically smaller; so at least they will not completely push him aside.