Webelos at Boy Scout Camp?

[yellow_hammer]

A fellow I know told me that his second year Webelos scout is going to summer camp with his uncle's scout troop. He is going as a scout and intends to earn merit badges. I politely told him that I didn't think that was possible.

 

Is this an accepted practice or are they bending the rules?

[John-in-KC]

I can hardly wait to see what happens when someone sees this Scout in his Class A uniform at dinner or some other function... and is wearing blue epaulet tabs and either the Webelo oval or his BC, Wolf and Bear diamonds...

 

... or when he wears a Webelo neckerchief to same ceremony...

 

... or if his unit numerals include the leftmost leading digit... (in my Council, this is the "unit category" number ... , 1 represents Scout Troops, 2 Venturing Crews, 3 and 4 Cub Scout Packs).

 

This is really a bad idea ... from my experience, staffers are trained to support "ages and stages." Can you imagine this young lad as he does KP for the first time at the dining hall?

 

Can someone say "helicopter parents??"

 

Someone who knows the child in question really needs to call the Reservation Director and give him a "heads up."

[scoutldr]

Let's hope that when the Advancement Report is filed with COuncil that ScoutNet will reject the MeritBadges for the Cub Scout. Too bad he will have to do them all over again. Requirements completed before you're registered as a Boy Scout don't count.

[scottteng]

Are we sure that this is not a boy that just crossed over with his arrow of light? Our troop has a lot of new scouts going to summer camp for the first time and just a month or two ago they were second year webelos.

[Lisabob]

Unless this young man is going to register as a boy scout (he's a W II so theoretically it may be possible, depending on his age), it sure sounds like rule bending to me.

 

Now, if he's joining boy scouts early then that's different. But I hope both he and his family understand that he can't go back and be a cub scout in the fall. Or at least, he couldn't in our area. Our council registrar would catch it if he registered twice, and I'm pretty sure any request to transfer membership from a troop back to a pack would raise the red flag too.

[evmori]

If he's still registered in the Pack, he is a Cub. If he meets the Boy Scout joining requirements & has registered with a Troop, he is a Boy Scout. If he is still a Cub, he shouldn't be going to a Boy Scout summer camp. He can't earn anything & actually can't do anything since he is still a Cub. If he is a Boy Scout, he can go to summer camp & earn stuff but he can't go back to the Pack & earn his AOL.

 

Lisabob makes a good point about red flags in this unit. Something ain't Kosher here!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[yellow_hammer]

The dad was pretty clear that uncle scoutmaster told him that it was OK for second year Webelos to go to summer camp. I am certain that he has not earned AoL, and doesn't meet any of the other joining requirements.

 

Someone seems to have forgotten that a scout is trustworthy.

[Lisabob]

Supposing that this is all correct and this boy is a Webelos II Scout (going into 5th grade at this point) who isn't crossing over to a troop prior to camp, then that leaves me wondering what Uncle SM could be thinking. Among many other things, I hope that Uncle SM's troop doesn't plan to attend the same summer camp every year because I would think doing something like this would burn quite a few bridges with the camp director, the camp staff, etc.. I wonder if Uncle SM has thought of that?

[OldGreyEagle]

What if he is only there for the fun of camp? To swim, sail, fish and wander about? Dont we generally excoriate those who use Summer Camp as a merit badge mill or advancement alley? The youth maybe there just to have fun, would that work?

[Scouting Mom]

Our Council's Boy Scout Camp has a program for Webelos. W1's and W2's can both go for a week long program with activities geared toward earning activity badges.

 

Maybe that's the kind of thing being offered and someone got their terminology mixed up.

[Lisabob]

OGE, that would be ok if this child were actually a boy scout and he went to camp "just for fun." As is, there's little difference between bringing along this nephew and bringing along someone's daughter or sister (she's there to have fun - doesn't care about MBs since she can't be a member) and bringing along someone's little brother.

 

This creates several problems.

1) It changes the dynamic for boys who are legitimately part of the troop to have younger sibling/friend/relative/neighbor tag along. That's true even if they really like the kid and "adopt" him as their mascot. He may not know anybody in troop. While I'm sure they'll all be nice to him etc (hey,he's the SM's nephew - better be nice to him!), it still changes the dynamic.

 

2) He isn't part of any patrol. Will he be given any camp duties? To whom does he answer? (patrol leader? what patrol leader? and there's "I don't have to do what you say Mr. SPL, my Uncle's in charge of me here") With whom is he supposed to tent?

 

3) Staff at camp are trained to deal with boys of a certain age range and developmental status. Maybe this younger boy is mature for his age, who knows, but maybe not. The staff aren't trained to teach and work with cub scouts. Supposing this kid is 9 years old (could be - my son was in the beginning of 5th grade as a Webelos II). There's often a pretty big difference between a 9 or 10 year old still in elementary school, and an 11 or 12 year old going into middle school.

 

4) Beavah might tear out a tuft of tail fur or something over my mentioning this but I wonder about liability? Suppose he is injured at camp and it comes out that he was never a boy scout to begin with, that he was there under false pretenses (Uncle SM faked the paperwork). Why should BSA's/camp's insurance cover him?

 

5) Credibility. By doing this, the SM puts his own credibility - and the troop's reputation for honesty and trustworthiness - on the line. Not to mention setting a bad example for the boys in his troop, who are likely going to figure this out pretty quickly. Rules need to be followed (or challenged in an orderly manner) - except when they're inconvenient and you're related to the SM?

 

6) Bad blood/precedent. So this year it is the SM's nephew. What about next year when some scout's parent has child care issues and wants to send younger brother along with Scout to camp for the week? What about the ASM or committee member who wants to include their younger child? They're all going to know the SM did it so he's going to be hard pressed to say no to them in the future.

[yellow_hammer]

ScoutingMom,

 

Our camps have Webelos programs too. This boy is not going to one of those camps - he is going to scout camp with his uncle's troop. Dad was clear about that.

 

All,

 

Thanks for all of your input. My question is answered - they are bending the rules. In my experience this is a very bad thing to do because it sets a precedent and opens the door for others who want to do similar things.

 

This scout will most likely cross over to the Troop in which I serve as CC (not Uncle Scoutmaster's troop). I already know what my answer will be when the question of merit badges earned before becoming a scout comes up.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

YH,

 

 

Keep your Unit Commissioner and your District Advancement Chairman in the loop as this young man bridges to your Troop. They can help you and your SM say "No, no, a thousand times, NO!"

 

YIS

[theysawyoucomin']

ditto everything Lisa said.

 

 

And I really and truly could not have said it better myself.

[scoutldr]

They're not "bending" the rules...it's a pretty clean break.