Summer Camp and OA

[BrotherhoodWWW]

When I was a young Scout (rank) the Council that we were in had their Ordeal directly after the tap out at the spring camporee. Back then the OA had plenty of respect of all the scouts. Even though each troop lost one or several of their best scouts when they were need for the camporee competitions it allowed other scouts to step up to fill their shoes inleadership positions for the weekend.

 

I was much older and in a different Council when I went through my Ordeal. It was done as it is now in most Lodges on a seperate weekend.

 

In my opinion summer camp is almost the perfect setting for a tap out and Ordeal. There should not be a conflict with each candidates duty to unit as there would be at a camporee setting, although there could still possibly be a conflict. I do however have problems with the canidates doing their service in view of other campers. If you are a fellow arrowman then a reading the "Guide for Ordeals" will shed some light on this position. For those reading non-members suffice it to say that IMHO my reading of the guide discourages this. Another reason many Lodges do not consider this is that many lodges use the Ordeal to perform before and after work on the camp. Even though this is commom practise I'm not sure that it is the best use of the Ordeal resource. I fail to see how it is a lasting, meaningful project.

 

Vicki, I wonder about your Lodges practise at camp prior to the actual Ordeal. It seems against one of the principles.

 

What I would like to see the OA do at camps is have an OA campfire night. The camp staff should be hired by giving preference to arrowmen. Just by being exceptional Scouts while at camp the OA can accomplish its purpose. The promotion of Scout camping, service to others, and brotherhood. Perhaps having an evening crackerbarrel/ lodge meeting would help the brotherhood purpose.

[Vicki]

Mark, I understand what you mean. Our lodge does, indeed, start the ordeal at summer camp with the induction ceremony and finishes it in the fall at the Reunion. For me, it was incredibly meaningful. The new inductee fulfills all the requirements and is awarded a leather neck thong with the lodge totem to be worn at all scouting functions until the ordeal is completed (including the last two days of summer camp, so inductees are marked people). So the symbolic progression is maintained. Completing the ordeal at the Reunion also gets the inductees out of the sight of their fellow campers. In a way, for me, it meant more to begin at summer camp w/everyone else at the call out and finish as an Arrowman amongst other Arrowmen.

 

Vicki (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[John-in-KC]

My brothers (and sisters) in Cheerful Service,

 

Let us be careful not to disclose that which Candidates should learn through mystery and discovery!!!

 

ICS, John

[Vicki]

Hmmm, I apologize, I guess. I thought I was being careful enough. Re-reading it again, I still think I was being careful enough, actually.

 

Vicki

[kahits]

I just got back from taking the troop to our local council camp, last week. Since my son and myself went thru ordeal a month earlier, we brought our sashes. They did plan to have a crackerbarrel for OA members on Wednesday night. Earlier in the week I was trying to encourage our camp SPL (he is a HS Junior/Life scout, but no longer camps with the troop, but does attend meetings when he can) to get his brotherhood. By Tuesday, he was ready to do it, and managed to get the required signatures, including mine. Wednesday came and at the campfire that night he stepped up for Induction, along with 2 scouts and 2 adults. We waited for them to return at the dining hall for the crackerbarrel, which they finally did after 10pm. It was a great experience for him (I think his parents were particularly pleased when he got back.) and I hope this renews his committment to the troop, which we can certainly use from him.

 

At the Friday night campfire, they began with 3 OA dancers who came out and danced to one song. My son already dances (I am Dakota/Lakota and my wife is Omaha) and wants to bring his regalia to camp next summer to help out these dancers. He (and I) will be brotherhood by then. Just having an opportunity to dance for him is reason enough to spend time up at camp.

[prairie]

What Eagle69 wrote agreed with my experance in the 1970s.

Whats changed? Call instead of tap, 8pm instead of after 10pm, horse is led instead of ridden, skeeters are just as blood thirsty now as before.

Almost seems the event was moved up for the convenince of the visiting parrents and would be the one thing that could be changed back.

 

We never knew if we were elected till tapped, toting your sleeping gear back to your campsite was a long walk. Ordeal was done next day rubbernecking campers were discouraged, most labors were in less used areas of the camp as well.

 

[16_CCC_22]

At my camp there is an OA snak on thursday the tapout at retreat on saturday and the pagent at the sat night fire in which OA members play the parts

[jambo]

EAGLE69...I agree with you that today's OA has been watered down , and the interest in it has dwindled. We have to analyze to see why this happened, and why is it still continuing ? The way I see it, it is the meddling of our National council fearing that OA chapters would become to powerful, and would usurp the Boy Scout philosophy, which basically is discouraging growth of renegade organization. An example : ( An OA chapter which was very successful. It had the best Indian dance team,had a large membership of Scouts and adults. Had their own bus,their own quartermaster with tents, cooking equipment and et. ( They would lend this equipment to underprivileged troops,or provide bus transportation , so the scouts could experience camping ) They had 5 acre of land , with a hunting type cabin, where they had their meetings and socials, and would rent out to troops. Every boy and adult was looking to join this OA Chapter.They had donations of money coming to the chapter and not to the council ..... Guess what ?.... The Boy Scouts of America, Inc. Decided to to disband this, confiscated their property and the bus...claiming that ,it does not conform to the " by laws of the BSA, Inc. ", all troop property technically belongs to the BSA, Inc. At first there was a lot of fight by the adult members to keep it together , parents and Scouts. But, in order not to ruin the reputation of Scouting, Every one left..and this chapter became a mediocre , " do nothing " OA chapter. This is a sad commentary...and I am sorry I had to bring this up. Keep that Scouting spirit, Jambo

[Lisabob]

Jambo, I am not certain I understood what you wrote in the way you meant it. To be clear: all troop property does NOT belong to "BSA Inc."; it belongs to the individual COs that charter the troop. Consequently, if a troop folds or changes COs, they should seek the permission of their (old) CO to take troop equipment with them, or else make arrangements to return it to the CO or dispose of it in some way that the CO approves.

 

Perhaps there are different rules for OA? I'm really not sure, though I expect it is likely since OA is not sponsored by a CO. But let's clarify this here, because a lot of people who read this board will take what they've read here as "truth" and we don't want to misinform them.

[John-in-KC]

Let's make sure we understand something:

 

The OA Lodge of a Council is a program element of the COUNCIL:

- The accountable officer is the Supreme Chief of the Fire. Who is that? The Council SCOUT EXECUTIVE.

- The SE appoints a member of the Professional Service as the Staff Adviser. That is usually the Professional in charge of the Scout Reservation.

- The Council Camping Committee of the Executive Board provides volunteer oversight.

- A volunteer is appointed as Lodge Adviser.

- Finally, a youth member is the President (Chief) of the Lodge.

 

Chapters are not, and never have been, independent entities. They are organizational elements of the Lodge, and usually parallel the Council Districts.

 

Any property acquired by the Lodge, is, in fact, property of the Local Council under its Charter from the National Council.

 

Now, I entered Walika Lodge #228 in 1970. Most of the above was pretty darn clearly laid out in my 1965 (1969 reprinting) OA Handbook. The most significant change I know of since my Ordeal is that National ownership of OA moved from the National Camping Committee to the Boy Scout Division about the time young ladies were allowed into Exploring (now Venturing).

 

Jambo, as Hermione would say in Harry Potter, you should go back and read Hogwarts: A History... just substitute various Scouting and OA documents for Hogwarts.

[ScoutNut]

"National council fearing that OA chapters would become to powerful, and would usurp the Boy Scout philosophy"

 

This is a rather unlikely scenario.

 

For one thing an OA Chapter is a division within a local OA Lodge. They are usually used when the council area is to large for just a Lodge to be effective.

 

The OA Lodge is chartered by BSA National. It is a self-supporting, integral element of their Council's outdoor program. As such it supports the council, it's camps and it's programs.

 

OA has no need to "usurp the Boy Scout philosophy" OA has it's own philosophy. The purpose of OA is -

 

1) To recognize those Scout campers who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives

2) To develop and maintain camping traditions and spirit

3) To promote Scout camping

40 To crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others

 

Because it is self-supporting, there should be no problem with donations made to the local OA Lodge. The Lodge's funds are held in it's council's treasury and are overseen by their council.

 

I am not sure why a Lodge would own a camp area separate from the council camps when one of the main purposes of OA is to support the council camps. I can see an OA Lodge receiving an outside donation and using it to provide a bus & camping gear to the council camps. That makes sense. Having your own camping program separate from that of council's does not.

 

An OA Chapter or Lodge is NOT a Troop. The rules that govern a Troop do not apply to OA. While BSA does not own all Troop property, the Troop's Charter Org has first claim on that, it would own OA property.

 

 

 

 

[jambo]

" Lisa & bob " and " john in KC ", I am glad that you have responded, and ignited our interest in OA. I had a giggle when you associated my thinking to Harry Potter ? . The difference is that one is a fiction, but other one is a reality, which occurred many years ago in my Council. If you understand, or maybe to young to fathom how the BSA, Inc. operates, and why Order of the Arrow,( a great organization ) is loosing interest with the volunteer adults and boys in Scouting. Many of the scouter's that I associate with now and in my glorious past , would attest that OA had become an average, mediocre or a 'so-so' type of establishment . It has been so set up for a purpose ( without a referendum of active Scouter's ), so the chapters don't overwhelm the financial goals of the individual councils. Lisa & Bob, may have implied that it might not be the " truth ",what I am presenting ?. You may view this as you like, but I speak from life long experience in Scouting. You never know " BP " spirit may be amongst you, one day...at a Jamboree,Camporee, round table, or even at your district or council meetings, as a silent partner. jambo

 

PS...Read the by laws of the National Council,on who has the last word on possession of units land properties , vehicles, boats, airplanes and etc. of the units that have folded. Oh, yes small items as saws,axes, tents and .etc., a negotiated agreement is made to distribute it to local units,which might have need of it.

[ScoutNut]

"The last word on possession of units land properties , vehicles, boats, airplanes and etc. of the units that have folded."

 

Since BSA started the Charter Organization system (which goes back even further than your "glorious past"), the "last word" is that of the CHARTER ORGANIZATION.

 

It is only when the Charter Organization decides that it does NOT WANT to keep the stuff or to start up a new unit, that the old units equipment reverts to council.

 

[John-in-KC]

Jambo,

 

It's NOT LISA AND BOB. Her name is Lisa. She is a member of the BobWhite patrol from Wood Badge. Hence, she has taken the board name of Lisabob. From everything I read from her here, she is a caring Scouter who works hard to improve the program in her Troop and District.

 

I'd be honored to meet her in person at a Scouting event!

 

As I recall, she's explained this to you before.

 

To my fellow board members: Why am I having visions of Brianbuf????(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Lisabob]

Jambo, I did not intend to say you were being untruthful. Sorry if you mistook my intent. What I did intend was to say that perhaps a bit of clarification is in order, because people who are quite new to scouting often come to this board seeking answers. I would hate for someone to come here, read something that might be incorrect, and then go back to their unit preaching it as gospel truth. Consequently, I suggested that we - collectively - ensure that the correct info is being presented. We all err occasionally or type a little to fast, or haven't had the requisite amount of coffee yet, or what have you, and I see nothing wrong with the forum members gently correcting, or asking for clarification from, each other. That's all I had in mind.

 

And I don't know anyone whose first name is "Bob."