Minimum age for Rifle Shooting Merit badge?

[funscout]

I've done a lot of searching on the web, but haven't found many answers to this question. Our Council uses 13 as the minimum age, but I did find one Council that lets 12 year olds shoot rifles.

 

When my son was at camp last week he and his fellow troop members were upset that an 11 year old boy (who just crossed over to Boy Scouts in March) was allowed to take the rifle shooting merit badge, while none of our 12 year olds were allowed, including my son and one other boy, who both turn 13 in one week. The 11 year old was in the same Cub scout pack, (his Dad was Cubmaster) as many of the boys in my son's troop, so that's how they knew how young he was. Needless to say, this caused some pretty hard feelings.

 

I'm going to check with our council on Monday to see why an 11 year old was allowed, yet 2 almost-13 year olds were told they couldn't do the merit badge. (Long before camp started, our Scoutmaster had asked if these two could do riflery.) Since I know the boy in question, I know he is not any more mature than my son or the other almost-13 year old. On Family Night, I talked to the Dad, and let him know that his former Cubs were pretty upset with him. Dad said that he got special permission for son do the badge 2 years earlier than anyone else.

 

This boy also did another merit badge that was supposed to be for 2nd year campers and older, and that also has our Troop upset that rules are being bent for him, but no one else. This kid went to 2 weeks of Summer Camp, with 2 different troops (he's not in our troop), so I guess his Dad was able to convince somebody that his kid was no longer a 1st year camper!

 

Any suggestions on how to solve this issue? Our boys have lost respect for their former Cubmaster since he is pushing for special favors for his own son, and showing that it's okay to not follow the rules. A Scout is Obedient? The Dad is very active in scouting, so we will continue to run into him at Council events.

 

 

[Region 7 Voyageur]

There is no minimum age for working on any merit badge in Boy Scouting other than the age requirement for membership. Some camps impose a minimum age in order to control the number of scouts in the classes. From what you describe this camp may not be applying their camp imposed rule in a uniform manner.

[nldscout]

The age differs from state to state because laws are different. In NY you must be 12, thats the state law here. So each council may be different.

[MaScout]

Our camp doesn't let first year campers take the MB. This is from the range instructor, and he wants a little more maturity on the boys. I realize it doesn't always happen in one year, but better chance of it. Versus getting a whole bunch of very excited first year's who are too excited to stand still, let alone listen! On occaision, if he knows the lad, and knows the lad has shooting experience, he'll let him take the MB -- but this is a rare exception.

 

[nldscout]

Funscout, what council are you in?

[scottteng]

If they are a boy scout they can shoot either merit badge or open shoot. We don't have state restrictions. Like to get then excited about it while they are still excitable. Of course our scout camp has a shooting team and always looking to recruit new talent. This spring we had a council sponsered field sports day where all scouts and scouters could come shoot rifle, shotgun, do archery and Rendezvous sports.

[packsaddle]

Our camp has no such age limit, except for ATE and high adventure programs.

Theoretically (and I know there's great variation in practice) if the blue card is used there is a line where the SM is supposed to approve that the boy can pursue a particular MB. It is possible, at that time, for the SM to work with the boy to ensure that he works on age-appropriate MBs. I consider 'age-appropriate' to be different for different boys and it doesn't take long for them to decide for themselves what they need to do, if an adult is willing to discuss with them their level of preparedness and the requirements facing them.

If they insist on attempting something for which they are not prepared, I don't stand in the way....it is one more important lesson that they can learn in the process.

[acco40]

Our Council recommends Rifle for second year Scouts and Shotgun for third year Scouts. Our Council also gives preference to Scouts due to age but numbers have been such that those who want to take the merit badge usually have no problem getting in the class.

 

Last year, the camp put scopes on the rifles making the completion rate for the rifle merit badge almost double.

 

Now, I ask a related question. If your Pack sets up an outing to take Webelos Scouts to a council camp and have them shoot BB guns with the appropriate certified range officer, is that allowed?

[GernBlansten]

At our camp, no age limit (scouts) on 22 rifles. But cubbies can't shoot them, they must shoot BBs.

13 for shotguns, but that is due to size. We only shoot 12 gauge and although some 11 and 12 year olds are big enough to handle that size gun, you really can't have a boy who can barely hold the gun to his shoulder.

No age either on archery. Cubbies can flick sticks too.

 

Scopes on rifles? Why not just move the targets closer if they want to improve the qualifying numbers? Sheeze.

[funscout]

acco40, yes, our Cubs get to do BB shooting at Day Camp, and Boy scouts can do BB shooting at Boy Scout camp, but they've already done that as Cubs, so they really want to move on to Rifle shooting.

 

My son and the other almost-13 year old are both big for their age. They both look 16, yet they are still 12 (for a few more days.) The 11 year old is average size for an 11 year old.

 

I'm going to talk to our Scoutmaster first, and then go on to check with Council. I'd just like to see the rule applied fairly to all scouts, not just ones whose parents are "squeaky wheels."

 

Thanks, everyone for the info. on when your council (or state) allows rifle shooting. I'll be better informed, now when I talk to our Council.

[OldGreyEagle]

There is always going to be trouble when adults set artificial standards for doing anything in scouting. But I understand sometimes the restraints of time and space require an age limit for the more "popular" merit badges. (I wonder if saying you had to be 15 to do the Environmental Science merit badge at camp would drive 13-14 year olds to want to do it and see what they were being barred from?)

 

The obvious question is how is the rule enforced? It has to be 100% or the kids will know and once its known a scout "too young" for the badge got to do it, respect for Camp Rules quickly erodes. If it has to be done, it has to be 100%

[nldscout]

Acco40,

The answer to your question is NO. Cubs can only use bb Guns an Council or district sponsored activities, regardless of in you have qualified instructors

[SR540Beaver]

funscout,

 

You might take a look at your summer camp's leader's guide if they print one. I've done a good amount of research on camps in all of the surrounding states of Oklahoma. Many, many camp guides use the word "recommended" for "older" merit badges. Some SM's look at it and decide that their boy(s) are good to go even if they fall under the recommendation. Other SM's look at it and decide to follow the guidelines. A recommendation isn't a rule. I've known a few 17 year old scouts that I wouldn't want to be near the rifle range if they were down there and a few 11 year olds that I would be perfectly comfortable with. Your boys might be disappointed, but they have not been short-changed. The rifle range will be there next year and this gives them something to look forward to. We prefer our new boys to participate in the first year program at camp and take a couple of easy craft type MB's to cut their teeth on. Swimming might be the excpetion to that rule. If they do all of the "cool" MB's up front, they won't care about going to camp in the future because they have been there and done that and won't want to take basketry at 13 or 14.

[funscout]

I'll find out more info. at tonight's troop meeting. Our scoutmaster did ask if the 2 almost-13 year olds could take rifle shooting at camp, but was told no. I guess he didn't ask the same person that the 11 year old's Dad asked, since he was told yes.

 

The main issue is that it does need to be fair for all scouts.

 

Sometimes my son gets disappointed that he doesn't get to do everything the other boys in his patrol get to do, since he is young for his grade. But then I remind him that 3 of his patrol-mates will turn 18 BEFORE their senior year in high school, 3 others will turn 18 in the Fall of senior year, but my son and his buddy will have ALL of their senior year to complete Eagle. This always gives him a smile!

[acco40]

nldscout is correct, one may not but in our council, they repeatedly do.

 

Now, what is the litmus test for "district sponsored?" Is it having their permission? I doubt it.

 

SR450Beaver is on the money with his "recommended" description. We have pleas every year from our outstanding shooting sports director that the SMs really screen who they allow on the ranges (especially for shotgun). Some screen, some sadly do not.(This message has been edited by acco40)