Pranks or YPT Issue?

[OneHour]

So spin off the thread and pose this question: would you consider an older scout mooning another scout (and a younger scout) in the bathroom/shower at summer camp a prank or a YPT issue that needs to be dealt with?

[EagleInKY]

YPT issue, I certainly hope not. Although I'm sure some here will think it should be.

 

No, it's an inappropriate teenage act that should be dealt with like any other.

[GernBlansten]

Always inappropriate.

YP violation if the mooning was intended to fullfill a sexual arousal by either party.

Otherwise an inappropriate sophmoric act.

Intent is a sticky subject though. Requires mind reading.

[packsaddle]

Would that be a 'half-moon' or a 'full tuck'? Other than emphasizing America's growing 'crack' problem, I can't imagine how this could excite any sort of arousal. But I guess I could be wrong. Seems to be a situational response...depends on how the younger scout viewed the action (no pun intended).

 

But I suspect this thread isn't specifically about mooning. Rather, it calls our attention to the potential for a prank to violate a YPT regulation or guideline. As I understand YPT, it is aimed at adults, especially leaders, who are not the likely culprits in pranks. And where there is a wide range of actions of concern for YPT, pranks also have a wide range. In fact, this thread should not be limited to pranks but should include other youth behaviors, perhaps especially those that are not intended merely as pranks.

 

Edited part: Thanks lisabob, for reminding me of the youth-on-youth parts of YPT.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Lisabob]

OneHour, I wouldn't necessarily consider a mooning to be a YPT issue unless there were additional circumstances (like, this boy does this frequently, he's been accused of other inappropriate behavior involving nudity, there's a history of hazing problems in the troop, etc.)

 

But I would certainly explain to this older scout how his actions might be perceived. Think about this young kid going home from his first ever boy scout camp and he says to mom: yeah, an older kid showed me his privates..." Now that might not have been exactly the intent of the "moon" but hey, 10-11 year olds are prone to misunderstanding "intent." Mom goes ballistic. You either get some very unpleasant phone calls to deal with, or Jr. Scout never comes back again and you have no idea why, or maybe both.

 

Some will undoubtedly say, that's an over-reaction. Well yeah, maybe, but it is also entirely too likely to occur. So at the least, I'd be sure to point out the wave of issues that may result from his actions, to this hypothetical older scout.

 

And Gern - keep in mind that there's a significant chunk of YPT that discusses abuse at the hands of other boys.

 

Lisa'bob

[evmori]

YPT issue - no

 

Prank - yes

 

Common occurrence with kids this age - yes

 

Snapping the mooner with a towel - priceless!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

My wife gave my son a disposable camera to use at summer camp last year. At the end of summer camp, she takes the camera and goes and gets the pictures developed. Well, she was quite shocked to see that a few of the boys put the camera down their pants and took a few pictures! With all the child pornography issues in the news she was not amused.

 

As a (fake) threat, I gathered the three or four boys who I was pretty sure were the offending parties and stated that there was only one way to determine who were the culprits - match body parts to the photos. Their faces went pale rather quickly. I laugh about it now but better judgment is not the strong suit of 12 - 15 year old boys (or girls for that matter)!

 

Oh, and once when driving home from an outing, a Scout in the back seat of my car (third seat in SUV, well out of my "reach") was egged on to "moon" the van carrying another group of Scouts back form our outing. All males involved. YPT concerns? Not on my part. An "education opportunity" for me to explain good taste, decorum, etc.? You bet.

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[OneHour]

I can see everyone's pov about it's not being YPT issue. We showed and talked about "A Time to Tell" before going to camp. We emphasized that we do not tolerate the behaviors. To me this is inappropriate behavior and it did offend the receiving parties. We have kids from different cultures. This is not acceptable in some of their cultures.

 

Personally, I'm with Ed. A smack on the cheeks with the towel will leave a memorable whelp!

 

Thanks,

 

1Hour

 

(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[OldGreyEagle]

I guess it all goes back to how you define a prank. To be a prank is something that does not merit scoutmaster intervention as it was harmless and no scouting principles were violated. I am not so sure that mooning falls in this category. First a story:

 

Way back when I was in management, I had amounf my 40+ employees a man and woman who had known each other since first grade. They would flirt with each other constantly and make at times almost outrageously suggestive comments. When I first started I questioned the behavior and was told "oh thats just them, they always do that". Time goes on and the company has a manditory "sexual harrassment" class for all employees. Within two weeks I am in the Personnel Office, seems there was a complaint about the two's behavior. I was incredulous as this had been long standing behavior and I couldnt beleive either one would have complained. Well, they didn't. A third person complained that the couples behavior made them feel "uncomfortable" and that fulfilled the definition of sexual harrassment. I had to tell the two to stop their behavior because if they didn't it would mean their jobs and possibly mine because if I couldnt control the employees then I was complicit in the harrassment. Of course the two demanded to know who complained, and I never was told. I am sure it was someone testing the policy to see what we would do and to stir the pot a little. ( can you beleive there are people who do stuff just to cause trouble?)

 

With some difficulty they toned back their behavior quite a bit and the matter was never mentioned again.

 

So now we have the case of the so called mooner, is it a YPI, I don't think so, but what did the moonee say? Doing nothing except laughing it off denotes implied acceptance of this behavior and could warrant repeat behavior and I am not sure anyone wants to be known as the mooning troop, then again I could be wrong.

 

 

[packsaddle]

OGE, "can you beleive there are people who do stuff just to cause trouble?"...isn't this sometimes called civil disobedience? If so, I plead guilty.

But (thanks for the reminder, Ed) perhaps YPT, no. But is mooning from the vehicle harmful? Probably not. By the whole troop? Maybe. As the bus goes through a small town as church lets out on Sunday morning? Spectacular! And if they do it from their own church bus with name and address prominently displayed on the side? Very, very poor judgment for sure. Explaining it all later to the deacons? Priceless.

[Eamonn]

I don't see it as a Youth Protection issue.

I don't see it as a prank.

I see it as Unacceptable behaviour.

I have to wonder how the adults found out?

If a younger Scout was upset? Then it really is a problem.

It needs to be dealt with ASAP and the entire Troop needs to know why it just isn't allowed.

If there was an adult present that might be another problem? He might have been in the shower house trying to establish some sort of order? In which case he failed!!

If he was just hanging out in the shower house, then you do have a real Youth Protection issue.

The snapping with a towel might seem like a good idea but it goes against a lot of the guidelines.

Eamonn.

[Lisabob]

In the state where I live, a drive-by mooning may land you in court with a charge of indecent exposure and public lewdness. (I work with college students - amazing the things you learn from them!)

 

Lisa'bob

 

[evmori]

I have to wonder how the adults found out?

 

When this kinda stuff happens in the shower house, it is usually all around camp in a few minutes! That's probably how the adults found out!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OneHour]

Eamonn,

 

My son was one of the two scouts on the receiving end of the mooning and he was offended! He brought it to my attention and to another asm's attention. The other was a new scout. The acting SPL brought it to my attention. Apparently, it offended the young scout as well!

 

My son, being sheltered from a lot of the ugliest that the world has to offer, did not appreciate the humor in it.

 

1Hour

[Eamonn]

Thanks OneHour

If this was just something that the adults had over heard as Ed states, it would still be not good.

But if someone is upset it moves to the next level.

Some years back in the District it seems an adult did this. The SE revoked his membership. I wasn't involved with any part of this.

This Guy and the SM of The Troop were very close friends. His wife served as Treasurer for the Troop Committee. As a parent he still did what he could to help the Troop.

His Son attended the 2001 NSJ, where I served as SM.

I'm not really sure what role he played in the Troop, I think it was some kind of non-official Eagle Scout mentor?? But there was a falling out in the committee, someone said that they didn't think he should be there. (I agree.)

The SM and some members of the Troop Committee started a campaign to get him reinstated.

They asked if I would write a letter to the SE and to National. They were very unhappy with me when I said I wouldn't.

In the end they were turned down flat.

The term mooning seems to make this sound like fun. But when you call it indecent exposure, which is what it is. The fun just isn't there.

What might be expected behaviour from a bus load of drunks is way below the standard we are trying to set for our Scout.

Eamonn.