How do you handle?

[jmcquillan]

As for A & B, these things are going to happen all the time, especially with new scouts entering the troop yearly, and others not yet being quite up to snuff on procedures. Having witnessed these things myself, I've simply asked the nearest Scout to find the SPL and ask him to see me. Then I'd explain what I had seen, and ask him what he thought should be done, and if I agreed with his assessment, I'd ask him to see that things were fixed, and that the guilty parties be shown the correct ways of doing things, so that they might not do it again, and explanations be made regarding sanitation and care of gear. And, I'd always remind the SPL that if any of the things he needed to do were beyond his ability to do so, (like a thorough explanation of sanitation and cleaning), then he was to seek out resources (SM, ASM's, JASM, etc) to help him get things done correctly. (This was part of my methodology for attending to knowing ones resources, and knowing ones limits.)

 

As to the sleepy Scout....haven't seen that one, so I can't comment. All the SPL's I've ever dealt with had fairly efficient and reasonable methods of getting the troop up and rady by the time necessary.

 

[evmori]

Bob,

Actually, it's not as hard as you think to drop a newer tent.

 

Ed

[Bob White]

I'll add one more thing about the sleepy scout.

A lot of that behavior is controllable by knowing the needs of the boys. It was said the scout got to sleep at the same time as the other scouts. But what wasn't said was what that time was.

 

Scouts work hard on a campout, and a lot of units that I've seen let their Scouts stay up way too late. These guys need a minimum 8 to 10 hours of actual sleep. Most leaders need a lot less. just because the boys go to bed when we do doesn't mean their bodies are ready to get up when we get up.

 

Since the leaders are responsible for the scouts health, we need to see they bed down and are quiet by a resonable hour. My preference is 10 p.m. at the very latest.

 

Bob

[KoreaScouter]

My $.02:

 

I don't believe in "punishing" the entire troop for one patrol's laziness, if it can be clearly determined which patrol left dirty dishes, mistreated equipment, etc. If you can determine that, have the guilty patrol go through the drill but leave the rest of the troop alone -- they'll learn the lesson by watching their buds in a "do-over".

 

If we make the entire troop wash all their dishes, pitch all their tents, etc., all over again, the miscreants will learn that there's no reward for laziness, however, the squared-away Scouts will also learn that there's no reward for doing it right, either, if even one Scout screws it up. I know what the school reply will probably be: "Not even one Scout should screw it up." Agreed, but especially this time of year with the newly bridged Scouts, there's a lot of stumblin' & bumblin'. If we punish everyone for one Scout's actions, the experienced Scouts will be less enthusiastic about new Scouts going on outings -- they'll be perceived as a recipe for trouble.

 

In another thread, a leader (sorry, can't remember who) said he deals with the sleepyhead by letting them sleep and miss the activity...another bangs pots. Either of those might work depending on the circumstances. Here's an approach I use at home with my kids, who both dislike oatmeal -- a lot. If it's time to get up, and you don't get up, I start spelling o-a-t-m-e-a-l. If I get to the "l", you're getting oatmeal for breakfast. It works. You might be able to do an adaptation of the same thing, although you can't take everyone's least favorite food on campouts. How about "last one out of his tent washes dishes all day"?

[sctmom]

If while on a campout, I see the leader's doing things like throwing dishes on the ground or barking at the kids like drill sergeants, how do I approach this?

I'm a mom, I'm the new kid on the block, and I don't like confrontations. Do I wait until a committe meeting to bring it up? Do I anonymously contact the District?

How many other scouts are being scared away by these seemingly "harmless" techinques that are only approriate at Boot Camp?

 

[Bob White]

sctmom,

I agree with many of the things that have been said about handling things in a positive way. I would address the leader face to face on the problem. Try "you know (Joe) I was thinking, there must be a better way to teach boys about good camping habits than throwing thing s around, let me pour you a cup a coffee we can swap some ideas" or something to that effect.

But I agree with you, throwing things, adult temper explosiions and punishing the innocent rather than the responsible is not setting a good example for the scouts to learn from.

Bob

[evmori]

There are times when tossing the dishes on the ground is appropriate. If the patrol hasn't cleaned them & not responded to repeated requests to finish the job, I have no problem with tossing them in the mud. A point needs to be made & sometimes this is the way to make that point.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

Ed,

Since you agree this is a way to make a point, let me ask you this question. My son has a problem with his anger. He will kick his bookbag, tried to deflate his basketball because it was not going in the hoop, throws things across the room, destroys his homework because it becomes "too hard". His teachers and I constantly have to be on the lookout and try to teach him why this wrong.

 

Say he goes on a campout, he helps with cleanup, and the scoutmaster comes over and throws the dishes in the dirt. The kid then comes home, isn't happy with supper and throws it on the floor. What's the difference? What "point" has been made by throwing things on the ground?

 

 

Why not just make the boys take everything out of the cookbox and rewash it, whether it's been used or not?

 

[evmori]

sctmom,

Please don't take this as a "shot" at you or your son. I am only responding to your scenario.

 

In your example, your son is lashing out after something he perceives bad happens to him. In my example, Scouts were told more than once to clean the dishes & never responded. That's the difference. Tossing stuff on the ground should be done as a last resort to get a point across. This shouldn't be done as a reaction like your example.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

Ed,

No, I don't take that as a shot.

 

I'm just saying that from an 11 year old perspective, shoot even from my adult perspective, what's the difference? My son has TOLD me again and again he doesn't like eggs, but I refuse to fix him anything else. So, he "makes his point" by throwing them on the ground.

 

Not that children should be treated exactly as adults, but Scouting is supposed to be "safe". Respect is a big thing to teach them. If a screw up at work, I don't do pushups. I don't have people throwing my work on the floor. People who do that at work are sent to the company "counselor" (therapist). If they can't learn to control themselves, they are fired. There is no excuse for it.

 

I go with the theory of "okay guys rewash EVERYTHING in the cookbox, clean it completely out, wipe it down and restore. If I find another dirty dish after that, you will do it all again. Do you really want to spend all weekend washing dishes? I'll be over here relaxing while you do that, let me know when everything is clean." If need be the boys stand there and rewash the dishes all day. Or maybe they can rewash the dishes from every patrol including the adults.

 

Sort of like the old trick of having to stand and shut the door until you can learn to do it without slamming the door. My mother didn't slam my hand in it to make her point, she made me stand there until I properly shut the door --- which is REALLY hard when you are mad.

 

The teachers aren't throwing homework on the floor because it's unacceptable. (are they?) They have the kid redo it, and redo it, until it's clean and correct.

 

 

[sctmom]

Ed,

No, I don't take that as a shot.

 

I'm just saying that from an 11 year old perspective, shoot even from my adult perspective, what's the difference? My son has TOLD me again and again he doesn't like eggs, but I refuse to fix him anything else. So, he "makes his point" by throwing them on the ground.

 

Not that children should be treated exactly as adults, but Scouting is supposed to be "safe". Respect is a big thing to teach them. If a screw up at work, I don't do pushups. I don't have people throwing my work on the floor. People who do that at work are sent to the company "counselor" (therapist). If they can't learn to control themselves, they are fired. There is no excuse for it.

 

I go with the theory of "okay guys rewash EVERYTHING in the cookbox, clean it completely out, wipe it down and restore. If I find another dirty dish after that, you will do it all again. Do you really want to spend all weekend washing dishes? I'll be over here relaxing while you do that, let me know when everything is clean." If need be the boys stand there and rewash the dishes all day. Or maybe they can rewash the dishes from every patrol including the adults.

 

Sort of like the old trick of having to stand and shut the door until you can learn to do it without slamming the door. My mother didn't slam my hand in it to make her point, she made me stand there until I properly shut the door --- which is REALLY hard when you are mad.

 

The teachers aren't throwing homework on the floor because it's unacceptable. (are they?) They have the kid redo it, and redo it, until it's clean and correct.

 

 

[Mike Long]

Korea you raise an excellent point.

 

The drill is usually only necessary once a year if at all. After it happened twice the Patrol Leaders became extremely attentive and it's been a long time since I have done it.

 

I'll have to reconsider my approach next time it happens.

 

I never throw anything, especially not gear, ever.

[Bob White]

I have to agree with sctmom. If we are trying to teach the scouts to take care of the gear, us throwing it in the mud seems counter-productive to me. I'd work with the Senior Patrol Leader to have the Patrol Leader or patrol Quartermaster clean it again since it was his responsibility to see that it was done right the first time, and have the patrol miss activitities until the work is completed properly.

 

Bob

[FScouter]

How about letting them go ahead with the rest of the day's activities. Meanwhile you wash them yourself, and confiscate all dishes for the duration? Maybe let them have one small pot.

[evmori]

FScouter,

I like it! If this occurs during our next trip, I will give it a try!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1