Cost of Summer Camp

[nldscout]

Looking for some information from those that may have it.

 

Question came up reference on of our Camping facilities.

 

a. Does your summer camp make a profit based on Camper fees from summer camp?

 

b. Does the budget for camp include funds to pay for non-summer camp expenses that it cost to keep camp open during off season, like electricity, water, or in our area snow plowing?

 

c. Does your overall camping program break even based on Camping fees collected?

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[SM12505]

Hello Paul,

 

Good Question. When it comes to money in the BSA, it really comes down to how well you manage it. With most camps, at the begging of each summer camp season the camp director will basically set up two budgets; one per a week and one per a season. After the camp fee is set and gets a rough idea of how many scouts will be in camp he/she will set a magic number of scouts (again one per a week and one per a season) and will budget accordingly to camper, staff pay, food ect. Anything that goes below that number will cost the camp money, if the number is equal the camp breaks even and anything past that number is profit to the camp unless there is a huge flux of camper per a week. As to your second question, most camps set aside a small fund from their profits from the summer to pay for off-season activates i.e. water, power and a ranger. But usually the camp will charge a fee for a troop to use the facilities of the camp, usually around $20.00 for a campsite for a weekend and anywhere form $60.00-$120.00 for buildings depending on the luxuries for the building. So basically the troop it paying for use of the camp not the other way around, Also at the end of the season if there is still money left over on opening day of summer camp it usually gets transferred to the general camp funds. In a perfect world a camp would want to only break even but in fact most camps are looking for a profit so that they can continue operation for many years by continually update the camp, improve summer camp program, and an emergency fund for any that might happen that was overlooked or unseen. Hope this helps!

SM12505

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Scout summer camp is scout summer camp, I don't expect a resort. From some of the camps I've seen, I would doubt that they are pulling a profit. I have seen some that have very nice facilities on them. Most of those buildings usually have a person's name attached to them, which means it wasn't built with profits, but a gift. Our council does not charge a price for in council units during the "off season". I assume they charge out of council units as our neighboring councils do when we use their camps. Since camps have to put out info to units 6 to 8 months before summer camp starts, they have to determine the price pretty early. Some camps have charged the same price for years. I suspect that most of them break even at best.

[toutletodd]

I know this is an old topic but thought I would respond.

First of all, It is always hard to talk about a council's budget in terms of revenue tracking against a certain set of costs. The reality is that the budget looks like a giant pot. All moneys go in it and many spouts at the bottom from wich the money is released to do work in the best interests of scouting. The other part that is tough is that Non Profits do not act like most private businesses because they have what is called fund accounting. The annual opperating costs come out of one fund. There are other non opperating fund for maintenance, camperships, etc. No back to the original question. Camps are a huge asset that require a large amount of resources. When you go to camp and eat a pancake you paid for that pancake. However you also paid for the staff that was there, the program materials, the general season camp maintenance and some of the off season maintenance including ranger/cartaker salaries and expenses. You also paid for promotion by district and council staff, part of the council operations center to answer questions, send information. In addition, someone had to take your payments, send out information, track the camps registration, hire the staff, etc. Our council has a camp operations budget of almost 3 million dollars. One year I tracked all the costs and revenues associated with properties and found that out of 3 million dollars I could count for all but about 50 thousand. Which is .001 percent of the total cost.

 

So I guess the answer in the Cascade Pacific Council would be yes Camp paid for itself at a one to one ratio.

 

 

[OldEagle4Life]

This actually came up in a conversation I had with several people concerning the camp my troop use to attend for years. I came to find out that the camp, which charged between 195-225, per scout per week depending on when and how you signed up, had an operating budget for the summer of 230K (for all aspects of the summer camp program) and that they only spent 108K on summer camp related materials. In the end they made over 100K for the summer in profit. When I inquired about how that money gets spent, the professional i was talking with pulled out a pie chart and showed how all the money was spent for the council, and where it came from. Of course the left over money was used to fund not only the camp year round (an unfortunate necessity) but went into the council general operating budget. Most people I know feel the money should stay right in the camp, and whatever is left over from summer expenses and year round expenses should be used to improve the camp, since the people who paid to attend camp were under the premise that the money they were spending was being used for their child's summer camp experience, not to pay for the donuts at the scout exec's mandatory staff conference 6 months later. Its kind of funny that the boy scouts are not as concerned about improving the program for the boys, but rather improving the business end of the council instead. But of course, my 2 cents.

 

OldEagle

[hacimsaalk12]

 

 

A. our fees ($175-200) pay for the week that we are at summer camp. nothing else

 

B. our fees for weekend camping trips (the money that goes to council) is used for electricity, water, snowplowing,ect. most of the cleanup & fix-up work is done by OA, so they dont need money for that.

 

C.I believe it does. out of the camps in the area, we have one of the best programs. the staff we have may not be the very best (a lot are 16 - 20, but there are a bunch of older more experienced people thrown in), but they relate well with us scouts, and they do their darnest to teach us well. our food is good & bad depending on what the cooks are serving. the facilites are pretty good. the grounds are beautiful. in the off season, everything is about the same, except the camp is pretty empty, & the pool is drained.

 

(this is how our camp is. im not saying all camps are like this.)

[Eagle69]

Unfortunately I think most coucils operate on the method of "all excess money over expenses goes to the general council fund" instead of staying with where it was raised. I used to do training and we would do the budget for the Scout Leader Basic Course and if we made money we tried to get it to stay with the District, but were told all "profit" went to the general fund.