ASM59 Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Our Troop just returned a couple of days ago from a week at Summer Camp. Overall it was a great week and our Scouts did a great job. We did have one big disappointment, however. There was a Scout from another Troop at this week of camp that wore a jacket to opening campfire on Sunday evening that had very inappropriate things written on it (out of respect for all, I will not post what was written on the jacket). One of our other adult leaders and I saw the jacket, but could not make out which Troop he belonged to. At the leaders meeting on Monday morning, I brought the issue up with the Camp Director, who told me that he had seen the jacket too. His response was, there is such a thing as freedom of expression and speech. He didnt feel it was his or staffs place to approach the boy. The jacket was again seen on Wednesday (family night). My other leaders and I went to the Council office Thursday morning and reported this to the Council Director who was in effect over the Camp Director. We learned on Friday that the boy was finally approached on Thursday afternoon and told not to wear the jacket anymore. The boy made a few objections, making it clear that he did not agree. We did not see the jacket anymore for the remainder of Camp. My question here is; Shouldnt the camp staff have the authority to approach a Scout and request that he not wear objectionable clothing? At a Church camp that Ive worked at in the past, we have always been instructed to have them turn it inside out, or remove it, or cover it up and not wear it again. The same thing happens at School, remove it, turn it inside out or go home! Why not at Boy Scout Summer Camp? ASM59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 If it bothered me enough, I'd take the simple and direct approach. Find out which troop the boy was from and and tell the SM I was offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM59 Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 Yes, and if I'd been the one that saw the jacket the second time, I would have asked the boy who his Scoutmaster was and went to see him. However, I was not the one that saw it the second time and it was too late in the day by the time I found out about it. Oddly enough, this boy was never at opening or closing flags, so it was near impossible to figure out which Troop he was with. ASM59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I think disciplinary action should go through the Scoutmaster, instead of directly from the camp staff. But, if the SM refuses to do anything (sounds like he may have already been guilty of looking the other way), then camp staff should have the right to deal with it. I believe that on our what to bring/what not to bring sheet from camp it states "clothing with inappropriate material" listed in the "what not to bring" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 In our camp the Camp director would have done something about it right away, she would not hesitate. Your seems a little whimpy to me saying there is such a thing as freedom of expression and speech. Thats the wrong answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherJudy Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 There is a time & a place for everything & at scout camp or any other camp where there are young children, inappropriate clothing shouldn't be allowed. That goes for too revealing or for inappropriate pictures, sayings etc. You'd also think the boy's parents would have said something about not bringing "that" jacket! My son went to Spring Camp & learned a new word - Hump & I'm sure you know how the word was used! He never heard that word before! He was in 5th grade & he didn't really need to learn that word. Older teens should really watch what they say around younger children. My son had gone to camp without his troop, so he was with boys he didn't know. I has asked him what other words he learned & I told him never to use them! Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM59 Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Judy, "You'd also think the boy's parents would have said something about not bringing "that" jacket!" Yes, I agree, but then again this boy's mother was one of the adult leaders for his troop for the week of camp; Mom was there the whole time! But should I mention that Mom would wear her sports bra to and from the lake every day and that on Thursday (hottest day of camp) she wore it all day with nothing else over it! This is another area we were not too happy with, and then to find out it is the "boy with the jacket"'s mother. It sounds like I made it all up, but it's the truth... ASM59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I can't help thinking that "Disciplinary Action" has a nasty ring to it. While I know that at times I am a pain, if I had seen the jacket and thought it was in such poor taste I would have spoken to the Lad myself. My hope being that a word in his ear might help avoid any unpleasantnesses. At the end of the day it would be far better if he decided that he wasn't going to wear it. I think it comes under the heading of making choices. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hmmm... "making choices"? Did I hear something about that somewhere?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmhardy Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I agree. Disciplinary Action has a ring that I don't like in that situation. There was an opportunity, apparently missed, to Offer Guidance. Regardless of what the parents allow I have no problem voicing a tactful opinion on any offensive activity. Freedom of speech works both ways. Teens are testing the limits....all the time. Its the adult job to help define those limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM59 Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Eamonn and mmhardy, I will agree that "Disciplinary Action" may not have been the best wording. When I typed it I was thinking of discipline in the sense of instruction, correction or guidance. I go back to my original question: Shouldnt the camp staff have the authority to approach a Scout and request that he not wear objectionable clothing or go to the boys Scoutmaster and ask the Scoutmaster to make the request? In doing so, we are gently correcting a situation. ASM59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torveaux Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 In short, yes. It is not the Troop's camp. It belongs (likely) to a Council and the staff is in place to protect the camp and its guests. I agree with Eamonn that my first approach would have been to chat with the boy myself. I probably would have offered him an alternate covering as clearly he was wearing the only jacket he had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 SO what if he responds, this is my jacket, I paid for it and unless you bought it for me there is nothing you can do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 SO what if he responds, this is my jacket, I paid for it and unless you bought it for me there is nothing you can do about it? Then politely tell him he is no longer welcome at camp and remind him which part of the Scout Law he is out of tune with. From what has been posted it sounds like it was a warm week at camp & the Scout wearing this jacket was wearing it to show-it-off & not for warmth. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmhardy Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I guess what is objectionable to some may be viewed as a bed rock of truth to someone else. For example...if I came to camp wearing a shirt that said "WWJD...be an orthodox Jew" I'm certain that there are some who's head would spin while others see it as point of absolute truth. So which point of the Scout law would I be breaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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