Can you be on two committees?

[featherswillfly]

In our area there is now one pack and two troops. The pack and one of the troops is owned by a Catholic Church. The other troop is owned by a bank. Problem: The church has come up with their own policy that a person cannot hold two positions not just within it's own group but outside it's group. What has happened is we have a family that has four boys whom are very active in Scouting. The parents are right with them every step, very supporting. Our troop has three of these brothers. Their mother is the advancements for the pack. She still has one son who is a wolf is cubs. She has one son who is a Life, one son is Second Class, and one son is Tenderfoot with us. She very much would like to be our advancements. She is willing and very capable of being our advancememnts too but can't due to this Charter's policy. Any thoughts? Our hands are tied. We also have three other sets of brothers in our troop with parents in the same dilema. We are in a position where our leaders are very stretched and parents are willing to take positions (committee) without being on our Charter. We really can't and shouldn't do this. Any help is greatly appreciated. The church is VERY unwilling to change (politics).

[ScouterPaul]

featherswillfly

It's my understanding that the only person who can hold two positions within a unit is the COR. That is within the same unit. Pack's and Troop's are seperate units, they may be charted by the same organization but there are two distinct charters. I am the Cubmaster of our Pack and an Assistant Scoutmaster of the Troop.

 

I'm also working on getting some cross pollination (spelling?) on the two committees. I want a Committee member from the Pack to serve on the Committee of the Troop who doesn't have a son in the Troop and I want a Troop Committee member to serve on the Pack committee who doesn't have a son in the pack.

[featherswillfly]

Thats a great idea Paul and we did that and it worked wonderfully. But when another group of adults didn't like the way things were going (obviously not their way) they went to the church council with a concocted story and got the council to come up with this policy. Hind sight being what it's worth the church has now discovered they screwed up and now can't get out of the mess they created.

[tdyer56]

I am currently the Tiger Cub Den Leader and Pack Trainer. Next Year I will be the Wolf Den Leader, Pack Trainer and Asst. Cubmaster. I know that these are not committe positions, but I am part of the pack committee. I am not sure what the BSA policy is on this matter, but I would think exceptions need to be made to insure the boys get a high quality program.

 

Sometimes people, like myself, fully immerse themselves in scouting, taking on 2,3, or more rolls. When good leaders come along, whyy try to limit their involvement? I agree that no one person should monopolize a unit, but if a person wants to do more...they should be allowed if it is at the benifit of the boys.

 

Tim Dyer

Pack 56

[ScouterPaul]

Your are right on the money Tim. We all wear many hats. Unfortunately we can only be registered and recoginized in one formal leadership role per unit.

[Bob White]

tdyer,

You raise a common question and I can give you two reasons.

 

1. when a person holds multiple positions it can become a barrier to youth protection. There were many cases throughout the coutry were adults were able to approve themselves for membership. there needs to be checks and balalances to make sure that references are checked and we are getting the proper leaders in place.

2. when someone who wears multiple hats within a unit leaves they leave multiple holes behind. not everyone wants multiple jobs. They see joe leaving and they see all the different things joe did and theu say "I don't have time to do all that!" and they stay away. Holding multiple jobs in a unit IS NOT a benefit to the unit, it's a big problem waiting to happen. The more volunteeers we get the deeper the unit's resources and the easier thay can handle transitions.

 

Bob

[tdyer56]

ScouterPaul,

 

I agree. I am registared as the Tiger Den Leader.

You are right in saying we all wear different hats. I do the Pack Trainer away from the Den but my main focus is the den.

 

BobWhite,

 

I teach the youth protection, I know that in order to become a leader you have to go through "checks and balances". I also know that sometimes that can also overlook things. I am not saying that the boys safety needs to be compromised. I am a Den leader before all else. The boys don't even see the Pack trainer side. As for next year...aren't we all Asst. Cubmasters when we are assembled as a Pack? Any adult in a leadership position in the pack should take on the Asst. Cubmaster role when needed. At no time will I take the boys somewhere as the Den leader and the Asst. Cubmaster and believe that it is two deep leadership. Besides I have an Asst. Den Leader as well.

 

As for when I am gone...and this goes for anyone in a leadership position, there will be others who take the open positions. No one person will be expected to do everything. I do everything I do because we are a small pack at this time. As we grow, more volunteers will come along and take over some of the jobs I do. I, like a lot, do multiple jobs to give the boys the best program we can with whatever we have to work with.

 

Tim Dyer

Pack 56

[andrews]

The only duplicate positions you can be officially registered for is Charter Organization Rep and Committee Chair.

 

Being on different positions on different committees would only be a problem when you run out of "another hour a week."

 

Brad

[featherswillfly]

If the only two positions you can be officially are CR and CC how come council people tell us if you want to be in OA as some type of Advisor you have to be tied to a troop. This is two positions. Or alot of times we have been told you can be listed as a multiple on the Charter. This is confusing. Would someone tell me where in writing I can find the answers I seek.

[Bob White]

Featherswillfly,

You are confusing two positions in scouting, with two positions in the same unit. In accordance with the first policy (Seen in bold type face) of the Guide to Safe Scouting, no adult can register on the charter in two positions in the same UNIT.

Being an OA member is not a position on the unit charter. But,yes, to be in the OA you must be reagistered with a unit in some position.

 

Hope this helps,

Bob

 

[featherswillfly]

Thankyou for clearing up that confusion for me. But I still have the problem of filling an advancements position. I have a very capable and willing parent to do this who has three boys with us, what can we do? She feels she needs to stay involved with the younger son because the pack does some things that are questioned (I won't go there). But she also knows she really needs to help us, having 3 sons within one troop. I still need a solution guys. And yes there is a father, but how much can you ask of a family. He works shiftwork and is very limited. He also helps with anything else we ask. Hes out.

[shemgren]

You only hold one primary postition, such as Cubmaster, Den Leader (of all types), CC, and SM. You cannot be SM and DL or CM and a DL. AN ASM can be a DL, but this should be discouraged.

 

Besides the issues already raised concerning Youth Protection and too much to cover if you leave the unit(s), this situtation is tough because the shared leadership model has broken down. A scout unit is based on the concept of shared leadership at all levels of the program. Without shared leadership, too few people have control of the unit. To overcome this, each unit should seek as many volunteers as possible to fill the various positions within the unit. The goal should that each leader has one position. Comming from a rural area, I understand that only a few people will get involved with a unit to help with the leadership, but the CC and the Unit Leader (CM, SM, and so on), working with the COR and UC, should strive to get the unit in the condition of one job for one person.

 

Concerning being a troop leader and an OA Advisor, this position is a council level position and it is easier for the Council to process you as a multiple, since people on the Council's charter as their primary registration, must be approved by the Council Executive Board. A multiple is being listed on several charters. I myself as a COR am listed on two charters and also as an ADC on the district's charter.

 

Scott Hemgren

ADC

Central Minnesota

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Featherswillfly,

 

Our apologies. Youre right we never really discussed your specific problem. If I understand the initial issue. Your Charter Organization has a standing rule for all church volunteers that says, if they are on a church committee they cannot serve on any other committee outside the church.

 

Unfortunately, if that is the case, there is not a solution through scouting avenues. The BSA has no authority over the rules of the CO unless they directly violate a BSA policy.

 

I can only recommend that you discuss the issue with the Pastor. Remind him the importance of the program in developing the character of young people and that as a parent you want to be involved in your childs activities.

 

Otherwise, I guess I have to ask what is the worst that he can do to you, excommunication seems unlikely.

 

[featherswillfly]

Apologies accepted but none needed. OK guys I don't think you're understanding the problem quiet yet. Here goes the church owns Pack 2 and Troop 2. Bank owns Troop 1. At one time there was only Pack 2 and Troop 1. There was some discontentment for some parents with Troop 1. They turn to their church who just happened to be the very same as Pack 2's CO. Still with me? Ok now it gets nasty. These discontent parents start Troop 2 who is chartered by the same church as Pack 2, so now the church owns both PACK 2 and TROOP 2. At the point this all takes place there were 2 people who held positions on both Pack 2's committee as just committee members. These same 2 people also held positions with Troop 1 as SM and CC. Still with me. This was done because the Pack 2 was having some very serious internal problems. They went to help with a district commissioners encouragment and all was fine. I should also say the relations was encouraged by the existing preist and this preist was a committee member for Troop 1 as well. So you see ther was alot of things that were going well and working at that time. Well the preist had to leave due to family problems. Hence a new preist who knows nothing of the internal problems or history. The discontent parents (who by the way were discontent because they had 2 boys with Troop 1 that were unbelieveable disciplinary problems but thats another story) see a weak spot in the church and decide a new Troop is to be formed. Unfortunatly the church asked no questions nor did the parish council or for that matter neither did our own scout council. Bad communications!! So now to get rid of the SM and CC who are on both Pack and Troop charters the church parish council comes up with a policy explicitly to get rid of the SM and CC of Troop 1. Ok all that was nasty but it's behind us. Today this policy is not working for parents who are in the position such as this mother who is willing and capable of being on the 2 charters as advancements. She is a stay at home mom and very involved with her 4 boys. You must understand this policy ONLY pertains to BOY SCOUT positions NOT other committees for other groups.

Please don't go back into the mess to figure it out. It's been done and is a dead subject.

The problem is how can this parent help both Pack 2 and Troop 1 in advancements.

[Bob White]

featherswillfly

 

The mom can help both Units as long as she only registers in one. That will violate neither the churches rules or scoutings.

 

Bob