Who, when, and where selects summer comp?

[barrythebluebear]

Greeneagle5 posted a serious BoR policy question on an advancement thread on 11/20/04. As an aside, he mentioned a dilemma that BSA guidelines do not address.

 

I'm sure many troops go every year to their council camp for summer camp. The council wants high attendance, SM and parents usually find it more convenient (besides other factors), and the boys feel like it's their camp.

 

...and yes, no two camps are alike and some camps have serious problems, so for reasons of interest, safety, or tradition, some troops don't attend summer camp at their council camp.

 

Either way, who should decide? When should the decision/plan be made? I know we all have some opinion about this as "purists", but I would particularly like to hear from troops that changed something and had a significant improvement in retention as a result (anybody qualify?).

 

Thank you for your insights in advance.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Barry

 

 

[eagle90]

When our council's summer camp program was declining, and the cost going up, three of our committee members toured 4 other camps in the same general area during the camping season. We evaluated the camp's program, facilities, staff, location, menus, etc. The evaluation was presented to the PLC for their input, and then to our full committee. The Committee then made the decision to change camps.

 

This was 6 years ago, and we are still attending the new camp and are extremely happy with the move we made. We did our homework, took input from all parties and made the right decision. We have had outstanding attendance by both scouts and adults ever since.

 

[Eamonn]

Who: In the ideal world the PLC should decide.

As well as the reasons you list,a lot of PLC's just don't have enough information to make an informed decision. We do in the district have one troop that I know of that does visit other camps during the winter months. I have never gone with them so I don't know what they look at. In some cases the need to participate in a activity that one camp has and the local camp doesn't will be the driving force.

When: This will depend on when the leaders are able to attend.

Where: This should be part of the troop annual plan. So where ever they (The PLC) meet to do the plan.

A pal of mine is an ASM in a local troop, the leaders decided that they wanted to try a new camp. We have a fair selection close to home, but they liked the look of one someplace in New York, when I asked what was so good about it? he said that they offered a lot more merit badges!! The cost was going to be about twice what the Scouts pay for our camp. The parents were not happy, the Scouts seemed to be happy with things as they were, so they ended back at our council camp. I suggested that maybe they should look at some of the Council High Adventure Bases and see if the older Scouts wanted to try one? The pal of mine looked at me and then down at his waist line, he just shook his head.

He has switched to lite.

Eamonn

[CA_Scouter]

We are one of those troops that likes to experience different summer camps each year. Generally, our camping chair and/or an ASM will research several scout camps and make a presentation to the boys, who will then vote on which camp to attend. For some camps, they will mail you a video describing their program, facilities, etc. so the boys have a good description of where they may be going ( we send the video back when we are done ). This works well for us.

 

 

[Trevorum]

In August our PLC sets the camping calendar for the following year. They choose the summer camps and hi adventure, which the SMs then fit into the summer schedule (reservations, etc.).

 

For the last several years we've gone to the local council camp, an out-of-council camp, and a high adventure trek. The local camp is excellent, but the 13+ crowd get tired of it after 2 or

[Trevorum]

In August our PLC sets the camping calendar for the following year. They choose the summer camps and hi adventure, which the SMs then fit into the summer schedule (reservations, etc.).

 

For the last several years we've gone to the local council camp, an out-of-council camp, and a high adventure trek. The local camp is excellent, but the 13+ crowd get tired of it after 2 or

[Trevorum]

OK - I'm a newbie here. Can someone please tell me why my posts are being truncated?

[EagleInKY]

Aw, Truncated Post Syndrome (TPS for short). I've seen it inflict a number of posters. I haven't experienced it myself. I've heard it suggested that if you delete your cookies and temporary files it may fix it. Other than that, I recommend copying your post before submitting.

[anarchist]

Our troop also is one that likes to 'see the world'...

After several years of being treated like 'next to nothing' at our Council camp...we tried a few nearby (though out of state)camps...

We did some research, checked some web sites and called on some recommendations and presented to our scouts and parents the options...over the last nine years the boys liked certain camps well enough to ask to 'comeback next year'...and we did. (or for a couple of camps we would visit different camp and then do a return visit to the requested camp.

Our Adult 'Camp Leader' (the SM or an ASM)has the "OK" to reserve the campsite for next year if needed and then the troop reviews the situation. If the PLC (with the SM) decide a new camp is really what is called for, we notify 'reserved' camp and usually have no problem getting deposit (if any) back with such an early "bailout". If we were to get stung for the 'deposit', the troop committee has agreed to take the "hit" as necessary.

 

Although usually we do 'planning' in August...currently we have reserved camp for 2006 (two summers out!) to get a program the boys have wanted to try. We also arrange separate high adventure (seabase etc) experiences for the older scout as well as visit camps that have "Eagle Base' programs

 

I will say this... (listen up camp staffers)... for most, if not all of the Summer camps and staffs ('out of State' and council), we have tried...They have treated us as VALUED paying customers(meaning great or at least well) rather than treating us as if we were interrupting their summer vacations.

 

That is not to say that their programs were totally great or exactly what we thought they would be...but the camp attitude seems to be, always, one of helpful and caring service...which translates to 'please come back and please tell tell others about our camp'!

In the end the Troop committee encourages trying new things and the PLC usually sees the value in avoiding "the same ole same ole"

good scouting!

[Eamonn]

Is Summer Comp anything like Workman's Comp?

It would have worked out cheaper to send my guys to Summer comp than having to pay the darn insurance.

Imagine an interview:

Employer: "Yes Jim, we offer Blue Cross, Blue Shield and the all new Summer Comp, this replaces the week that all the Scoutmasters called off sick every summer."

Sorry Barry, I couldn't help myself.

Eamonn.

[barrythebluebear]

Yeah, can't type worth beans.

 

On the other hand, what do we get a camp in the way of comp?

 

Choatic set-up, wound-up boys, lost badge sites, missing first-year tenderfeet, camp food (that same old menu), meal shows that can inspire or expire, wandering families on parents night, repeating ceremonies, and...

 

the boys who look back and say it was the best thing that happened all year!

[SR540Beaver]

I believe in supporting your council camp. That being said, I also like to see the world. I like the idea of alternating between the council camp and other camps every other year. Unless you have an outstanding program and a scenic site, it is hard to retain troops making annual visits to your camp. On the other hand, if you don't support it, it will never get better. When my son was looking for a troop to join, we visited one of the more prestegious troops in our area. One of their leaders told me that they never go to our council camp because their boys found it boring and always go out of state. Often far out of state. He then told me they had been doing this for about 10 years. 10 YEARS!? How in the world did they know if our council camp had inproved or not if they had not been in 10 years? I prefer to research the camps and present it to the boys and let them decide. I really don't think it should be the SM or committee's decision. They should offer input, but not decide. Remember, we need to allow the boys to fail in a safe environment. Let them live with their decisions and learn from it. I presented our boys with about six options recently. The one I was pulling for was a camp with a great reputation and an outstanding facility and program. The boys picked a dinky little camp that only has a two week program and a single shower facility for the whole camp. The reason was because the camp offers the golf merit badge. When they heard that, all reason flew out the window. Who knows, it might turn out to be a great experience. If not, next year I will remind them how they chose a camp based entirely on a single merit badge. Live and learn.

[flyingember]

same camp since 1930. H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation.

 

well, one of our leaders did kind of helped found the camp in 1930 (he owned the land), so you can see where that leads.

 

We do have one of the few camps to return 50% of scouts from their first to fifth years. Heck, I bet we had more scouts over 13 one year than under.

[dluders]

1. As a compromise, our troop alternates between IN-COUNCIL camps and OUT-OF-COUNCIL camps. That offers good variety, and the older Scouts can see some territory that they've never been to before. Alternating camps can appease the Professional Scouters who pressure their units to support their local camps.

 

2. If you're wanting some ideas about various Scout Camps, check out the website http://www.scouter.com/compass/Where_To_Go/BSA_Camps/ .