external frame backpack recommendtations

[cad-guy]

I am looking for an external frame backpack for an adult. Can anyone give me a recommendation for one that they really like. My son is using a jansport scout and really likes it compared to the internal frame packs, so I thought I'd go external as well.

[sweetspiritpamh]

My husband was just looking for a new external frame pack. The internal frames he feels ride to close and make him hot. We did a ton a research and he felt like the Kelty Tioga would be good for his needs. I went to a local outdoors store and the young man their wouldn't sell it to me even though I assured him that was what I was looking for. So I searched the web and found a really nice ex-scout who has a online business and got it from him for a ton cheaper than what I would have gotten it for local.

The website was http://riverroadandtrail.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

 

[GernBlansten]

Good luck finding one. A few are still manufactured but the vast majority of the market has gone over to internal frame. I think Kelty still makes a good one. Check campmor.com.

At Philmont last year, of the hundreds of backpackers we crossed paths with, probably only 5% were external frame jobs. And of those, most were vintage models. They are definitely going he way of the BetaMax tape.

[Dizzy ona cliff]

When I first started backpacking with my son I used my 20 year old pack with straps that dug into my shoulders and squeaked. On one hike I tried on the Kelty Super Tioga that was being used by an older youth, and it felt really really good even though he had it loaded with more stuff. So I got the regular Kelty Tioga and so the pack and I have become one. It fits like a glove, and it is organized so that I can find my stuff in the dark. It can slosh a bit when scrambling over rocks, but such trails are rare for me.

[allangr1024]

I love my Jansport Rainier external frame backpack. It is hard to find anymore, and EBAY may be the best place to look. I took it to Philmont in 2005, and it did great. I lashed my tent and sleeping bag to the bottom of the frame, and tied excess clothing all the way around. I like the way Jansport has the frame that curves around your head, and my pack has a hip belt with a buckle that allows me to pull the pack tight or loose by pulling on a clamp.

 

If I were to suggest a model to my young scouts, I would recommend the "Scout" from Jansport. At least for a starter pack. Then they could graduate to something else if they want when they grow in size.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Camp Trails was for years the old standby. They're still in business as well. I still have fond thoughts for my old Camp Trails Astral Cruiser frame with the Skyline or Horizon packs.

My problem with the external frame was how the top posts would catch on low-hanging limbs. There were some trails that were pure torture because of that. It was bad enough to have to hike in a crouched stance. Having the frame catch on a limb about once per minute was much worse. At least with the internals, it's mostly just an annoying bump rather than a neck-jerking snag.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Dizzy ona cliff]

I see that Packsaddle did not get the solar powered helmet mounted limb wacker attachment. What a goober!

[belayer_StLouis]

External vs Internal frame packs:

The observation about only 5% of Philmont hikers having internals is probably correct BUT I am would be willing to bet that only 5% of them know how to wear (use and adjust) an internal. While on the trail in 05 my crew, 9 out of 10 had externals, were amazed that so many of the internal users didn't know how to use their packs and how uncomfortable they all looked. Pack makers make what sells and retail employees only sell what they have. Most of them don't know enough (if anything) about externals. Externals are excellent for trail hiking and the modern externals do a great job and are far removed from the old externals just as the new internals are far removed from the old "rucksack" type internals. Internals are great for off trail hiking, scrambling, telemark skiing, putting under seats on Eurorail and storing in canoes. Internals take more skill to pack and adjust properly, and are hot on the trail. If you hike on developed trails like the beautiful trails at Philmont an external frame is the ticket. Kelty (whom I used to work for and have no relationship to) makes 2 great packs, Super Tioga and Trekker. Jansport makes externals also but I have no intimate knowledge of their models. Campmor does carry both brands and always seems to have good prices. Diamond Brand, Ashville NC, also does a nice job (look up them on the web). In an internal packing the load properly is part of what makes them work. Externals are more forgiving and much easier to load. People who know and understand the difference between internals and externals lament the fact that externals are harder to find and that retailers (with much ignorance)bad mouth them. The price difference is also major; externals don't take as many production steps and that accounts for the difference. I am a very experienced backpacker and used to do clinics around the country for my old employer and have both kinds (several sizes of internals)and they have their places but for trail hiking I would only use an external.

[cad-guy]

that is some great info on the difference between internal and external. I have only really been on 1 12 mile over night hike and used an external. My son also used a Jansport Scout that I got for him. We both loved the way we could just bungee tents and sleeping bags onto to top and bottom frame and GO! No problems. I did see alot of the boys using internal frames that were setup to use for adults. They just didn't look comfortable.

[GernBlansten]

One benefit of internal frame packs is it requires you pack them properly. It also doesn't allow you to just tie stuff on the outside. This is a huge benefit. Makes you think about what to take and what to leave at home. One thing I've noticed is most external frame packers take way too much junk with them because it's real easy to just clip it on and go. They end up looking like the Clampetts heading to Californy.

 

I also would concur that most backpackers don't know how to adjust their packs, internal or external. Spent the better part of the training hikes for Philmont helping my crew learn their own packs.

[Gunny2862]

For an external Frame pack I concur with the Kelty Super Tioga as a good choice for an adult pack, the lower range of adjustment supposedly goes down to a fit for a 5'10" height. So it's not appropriate for younger or shorter Scouts.

 

I still have and enjoy my Medium ALICE pack with external military surplus frame on occasion and am currently alternating depending on what we're doing by toting a Jansport Internal frame.

[belayer_StLouis]

Further note about externals and internals and some of the furhter posting:

 

I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Alice packs; always felt sorry for grunts. Those are terrible and poorly designed - the load pulls away from the body instead of centering it over the hips and bringing the load closer to the body's center of balance. But it is good for humping large loads of lurps and ammo.

 

Bungee cords: don't use them on packs!! If you hike more than a mile or so you will notice that your tent or sleeping bag will start to have a motion of its own. Buy straps and cinch down the load to the pack- that applies to externals and internals. The elastic wears out, stretches out; I've got straps more than 25 years old and still work.

 

Loading stuff on outside of packs: Many internal users are the most guilty of walking with stuff strapped to outside and looking like whatever coming down the trail because they discover there isn't enough room in the pack. Much of that can be blamed on the fact that they (and many retail sales staff) don't understand that the cubic capacity of an internal includes the section where the sleeping bag has to be stuffed. Externals have a space, not included in the cubic capacity, where the bag/tent/pots/sleeping pad is attached. Many of internals have included lots of pockets on the outside, just like externals. A 3000 cubic inch external has more room than a 3000 cubic inch internal. If you look at many of the modern external and internal designs you will see that they borrow many of the design principles from each other like wrap-around waist belts, load lifters, compression straps and stablizer sheets and bars in internals that take the place of the external frame. Many of both type are very adjustable to fit varying torso lengths.

 

Torso length: if you visit a retailer and they don't determine your torso length and don't load the pack with 30 or pounds of weight before you try to test a pack - RUN. Even if a retailer doesn't know anything about modern external packs there are many good ones that know how to fit a pack to you. Many of the folks in retail have memories of the old externals when they were young and are mesmorized by the high tec wizardy and tecy names of all the parts in today's internals.

 

Remember that hiking is the real object, not buying gear. I have very experienced friends and trail mates who use terrible gear and have a great time - good for them!!

[belayer_StLouis]

Further note about externals and internals and some of the furhter posting:

 

I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Alice packs; always felt sorry for grunts. Those are terrible and poorly designed - the load pulls away from the body instead of centering it over the hips and bringing the load closer to the body's center of balance. But it is good for humping large loads of lurps and ammo.

 

Bungee cords: don't use them on packs!! If you hike more than a mile or so you will notice that your tent or sleeping bag will start to have a motion of its own. Buy straps and cinch down the load to the pack- that applies to externals and internals. The elastic wears out, stretches out; I've got straps more than 25 years old and still work.

 

Loading stuff on outside of packs: Many internal users are the most guilty of walking with stuff strapped to outside and looking like whatever coming down the trail because they discover there isn't enough room in the pack. Much of that can be blamed on the fact that they (and many retail sales staff) don't understand that the cubic capacity of an internal includes the section where the sleeping bag has to be stuffed. Externals have a space, not included in the cubic capacity, where the bag/tent/pots/sleeping pad is attached. Many of internals have included lots of pockets on the outside, just like externals. A 3000 cubic inch external has more room than a 3000 cubic inch internal. If you look at many of the modern external and internal designs you will see that they borrow many of the design principles from each other like wrap-around waist belts, load lifters, compression straps and stablizer sheets and bars in internals that take the place of the external frame. Many of both type are very adjustable to fit varying torso lengths.

 

Torso length: if you visit a retailer and they don't determine your torso length and don't load the pack with 30 or pounds of weight before you try to test a pack - RUN. Even if a retailer doesn't know anything about modern external packs there are many good ones that know how to fit a pack to you. Many of the folks in retail have memories of the old externals when they were young and are mesmorized by the high tec wizardy and tecy names of all the parts in today's internals.

 

Remember that hiking is the real object, not buying gear. I have very experienced friends and trail mates who use terrible gear and have a great time - good for them!!

[belayer_StLouis]

Further note about externals and internals and some of the furhter posting:

 

I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Alice packs; always felt sorry for grunts. Those are terrible and poorly designed - the load pulls away from the body instead of centering it over the hips and bringing the load closer to the body's center of balance. But it is good for humping large loads of lurps and ammo.

 

Bungee cords: don't use them on packs!! If you hike more than a mile or so you will notice that your tent or sleeping bag will start to have a motion of its own. Buy straps and cinch down the load to the pack- that applies to externals and internals. The elastic wears out, stretches out; I've got straps more than 25 years old and still work.

 

Loading stuff on outside of packs: Many internal users are the most guilty of walking with stuff strapped to outside and looking like whatever coming down the trail because they discover there isn't enough room in the pack. Much of that can be blamed on the fact that they (and many retail sales staff) don't understand that the cubic capacity of an internal includes the section where the sleeping bag has to be stuffed. Externals have a space, not included in the cubic capacity, where the bag/tent/pots/sleeping pad is attached. Many of internals have included lots of pockets on the outside, just like externals. A 3000 cubic inch external has more room than a 3000 cubic inch internal. If you look at many of the modern external and internal designs you will see that they borrow many of the design principles from each other like wrap-around waist belts, load lifters, compression straps and stablizer sheets and bars in internals that take the place of the external frame. Many of both type are very adjustable to fit varying torso lengths.

 

Torso length: if you visit a retailer and they don't determine your torso length and don't load the pack with 30 or pounds of weight before you try to test a pack - RUN. Even if a retailer doesn't know anything about modern external packs there are many good ones that know how to fit a pack to you. Many of the folks in retail have memories of the old externals when they were young and are mesmorized by the high tec wizardy and tecy names of all the parts in today's internals.

 

Remember that hiking is the real object, not buying gear. I have very experienced friends and trail mates who use terrible gear and have a great time - good for them!!

[Gunny2862]

As with all packs, understanding it's characteristics are a key point of utilizing them well. The ALICE does have it's quirks, but for Max loads, durability, and having space between pack and body, for cooling or additional storage, it actually is a fairly decent system - provided you know how to wear it - which unfortunately is more a breaking in(or strengthening) process on your body than a fitting of the pack. One quirk is that it does not transfer loads to the lower body well and relies heavily on a strong core and back. I DO NOT recommend it for everyone, but merely noted that I still use mine on occasion.

 

What belayer_StLouis states about understanding capacities is true and an often missed point of pack comparisions, you must subtract your sleeping bags(and anything else you store inside an internal that will be stored outside of an external) c.i. from the c.i. of an internal when comparing them to externals.