Who has the best Scout trailer?

[Nessmuk]

Efficiency ?? Since when does that have anything to do with development of boys into leaders? Never has - never will !! Efficiency is just another word for "easy" - easy for the grown ups - so they don't have to watch the boys inefficiently (naturally) become leaders.

 

A Patrol does not need a trailer to properly set up a base-camp either. If you want a sound base-camp from which to scout out.. the boys only need a chuck box and maybe a tent/ax box and cooler/jug.. All delivered by pick-up truck (or air drop) - which is unloaded by the boys. They still "hike in" some basic food and all of their personal gear.

 

I have a scenario I am working up where we will have the patrol pack up their base-camp gear into their boxes and deploy the gear by an advance group who caches the gear for the Patrol to find by map and clues when they hike in..

 

Not at all efficient - but very fun and developmental.

 

Efficiency is for bueruocrats and parlor Scouters..

 

Adventure and difficulty is what our boys need (and want) today!

[Gunny2862]

Nessmuk writes "Adventure and difficulty is what our boys need (and want) today!"

TRUE

 

"A Patrol does not need a trailer to properly set up a base-camp either. If you want a sound base-camp from which to scout out.. the boys only need a chuck box and maybe a tent/ax box and cooler/jug.. All delivered by pick-up truck (or air drop) - which is unloaded by the boys. They still "hike in" some basic food and all of their personal gear."

 

I'll buy - a Troop/Patrol doesn't NEED a Trailer. OKAY, so how is the chuck box, tent/ax box and cooler/jug getting there - if not delivered for the boys by adults delivering it efficiently in a truck (or air drop)(good luck LEGALLY scheduling that air drop). But if you are so into letting the boys learn from adventure and difficulty why aren't they just carrying it in from your Troop meeting place or storage facility where you keep it when it's not being used. How about an engineering project so they can build a push cart and move that gear that YOU are having delivered by truck themselves - wouldn't that be more adventurous and inefficient?

 

"I have a scenario I am working up where we will have the patrol pack up their base-camp gear into their boxes and deploy the gear by an advance group who caches the gear for the Patrol to find by map and clues when they hike in.."

 

REALLY, is the same truck efficiently going to carry it nearby so it can be cached?

 

"Not at all efficient - but very fun and developmental."

 

I don't know you seem to keep bringing elements of efficiency into the equation.

 

"Efficiency is for bueruocrats and parlor Scouters.."

 

NICE characterization of SOME leaders who have to put in place the many planning elements of a successful trip and which I believe you have pointed out that you aren't above using yourself. Way to put down a whole group of Scouters who aren't in the same situation as you. Good job.

 

"Efficiency ?? Since when does that have anything to do with development of boys into leaders? Never has - never will !! Efficiency is just another word for "easy" - easy for the grown ups - so they don't have to watch the boys inefficiently (naturally) become leaders."

 

EFFICIENCY is almost never easy, not until it has been obtained by lots of planning and practice or just a WHOLE lot of time paring down things that didn't work. Efficiency never just "happens" and is, in fact, the mark that someone has taken a great deal of care in setting something up. AND I believe, one of the things that Capable Leaders try to use. Or should we model inefficiency in the things that we do, do for them?

[Gold Winger]

What's the difference between delivering the patrol boxes by pickup truck or by trailer?

 

[Gunny2862]

Or by air drop - although that would be really cool.

[Gold Winger]

Hey! We could insert the entire troop by parachute. A new Static Line merit badge. A new troop POR could be Jumpmaster.

[Gunny2862]

And a supplementary supply drop for the cook kit or a LAPES for a trailer and prime mover....

 

But we'd really have to be careful of the pinning ceremonies, YPT, you know.

But THAT would be an awesome version of a Scout Trailer.

[Nessmuk]

Difference between truck & trailer? Truck is loaded with boxes at troop meeting place by Scouts who just packed the gear based on list maintained by the QM.

 

Trailer stays at SM's/ASM's house and usually stays packed. If something is forgotten, it's not something the Scouts are accountable for and learn a lesson from. Both are driven and pulled to a location by an adult. Trailer stays on campsite - The truck drives and parks, gear is unloaded and hauled to the camp site by Scouts + Instills- teamwork - strength training - leadership - organization - communication .. Rain and night - creates more good challenges.

 

Trailer. It's driven by adult to site, usually stays attached to the truck (also in the middle of the site).. No work, imagination, or challenges required on the part of Scouts. Turn on the TV and watch the game.

 

Good idea Gunny,- It's called a Trek Cart and plans can be found in various places on the web. Here's one - http://www.netwoods.com/trekcart/trekcart.html

 

Main point about "efficiency" since I am getting so much flak on it.. I am not saying it's bad to be efficient.. It's bad when efficiency becomes your Objective as opposed to being a measure of how well (or easily) you achieve the real objective..

 

So if your objective is to set up a camp - provide shelter and food / fire.. then maybe having others (contractors ?) come in before you to do the whole thing before you get there is an extremely efficient option. But if your objective is to teach outdoor skills, teamwork, hygene, cooking, and build woodsman confidence in boys (among other things) then I stand that the objective is not served well by using a troop trailer usually built or bought by adults, driven by adults, loaded/unloaded by adults, set up in the middle of camp, cooked out of by adults etc etc etc - which is how I have seen nearly every "trailer troop" operate.

 

All of those good elements of planning and coordination you mention could as readily be applied to a Patrol hiking out of town from their troop meeting place 7 mi to a state park and setting up for the weekend. Maybe Uncle Joe drove a pick-up out to deliver the cooler, small chuck box, and a watermelon.. Not so bad.

 

But Uncle Joe did not hover over the Scouts guarding his prized highly organized and efficient troop trailer which remains connected to his truck the whole weekend and holds his 18 different dutch ovens in which he cooks the weekend's meals and does his cleanup - barking a few orders to random scouts to make it look 'boy led'. -

 

About the air drop -- pretty funny huh.. Always thinking up crazy imaginative stuff..

 

But.. the cache box of food is a real woodsman / pioneer / outdoorsman thing - no joke.. Bush plane drops and pre-stationed food supplies help keep you in the field (or on the hunt) for longer periods of time without coming home.. No reason not to fold cool stuff like that into a weekend or week-long campout - applies compass /map terrain reading, cordination and communication skills to something very useful and interesting (LIKE THE NEXT MEAL!)

 

Is there a chance that any of you will be able to DEFEND WHY THE TRAILER METHOD AS A GOOD THING with real rationale and examples and link it to key objectives of the Outdoor Method and the Scouting Movement .

 

Otherwise your just saying "It's right because I say it's right..and don't bother me with the facts or any of that other Outdoor Method/Patrol method silliness".

 

No Scouting purpose is served by the Trailer Method - rather the purpose of Scouting is undermined through it. BP himself said the same about pre-arranged / contracted camps.

[Gunny2862]

FYI nessmuk,

if I'm cooking it's either for me and the other adult or because we have more adults along.

Scouts cook for Scouts. By patrols if possible.

 

We can't get to public campable land in 7 miles. Takes about 25 miles to get to the first spot. Yeah, I wish we lived in the Fred MacMurray movie too, "Come Along Boys", but a trailer or truck or backpack camping are our only options and any all of them require transportation for a weekend outing unless you REALLY want Parlor Scouts and we go out in someones CITY backyard.

 

You're taking what you've seen from one trailer troop and applying it to everyone. Some of us are working what we've got.

Our Quartermaster(a Scout, not the Adult position - guess who is wearing that hat also - see discussion below) is responsible for the items in the trailer - issuing, receiving, cleanliness of the trailer and it's inventory you can't tell me that's not good training in warehousing processes, rotating stock, dealing with bad customers or good ones put in bad situations. And yes, we still set up when we arrive with Scouts doing all of the things you describe "The truck drives and parks, gear is unloaded and hauled to the camp site by Scouts + Instills- teamwork - strength training - leadership - organization - communication .. Rain and night - creates more good challenges." Which with our necessary travels we almost always encounter the night on one end or the other. As to the crack about guarding the trailer, the tongue has a shoe lock and the Scouts have keys - no guarding necessary, at least not any more than Uncle "whats his name" does with his truck.

 

I'm just not going to argue B-P or Green Bar Bill with you. I think their programs were great but they also didn't work with the strictures we do. I'd love to camp in a city park just like B-P, but we'd have to set up security and have a roving patrol IF it were even possible that the city would let us do it - which they won't. In that scenario, the Scouts could get by without ANY carriage - just like B-P carrying everything they needed on their backs, but it just ain't going to happen. So why detract from the situation at hand and argue with(and put down) Scouters who are doing the best they can with what they do have?

 

As far as the Camping and Transportation chairs, you're talking to him... I'm working my CC for a Full Committee but people have to be willing to step up... Wish I only wore the one hat... One bite at at time, one bite at a time...(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)Edit to include nessmuks quote and the Uncle "what's his name comment)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Nessmuk]

OK Gunny, I'll agree with your conclusion.

 

But my observations are from ten's of troops - many many troops - not including the ones I observed and was a member of as a Scout. Oh yeah Uncle Joe's (totally fictional) truck does not stay there.. He goes home after dropping off the watermelon.. Leaves the patrol alone..

 

You appear to have a lot of exceptions and reasons you can't do it - and so you just can't do it. I guess I am just so fortunate I can hike 5 miles from my small town and camp in the woods. Yeah I live in a Fred MacMurray movie and we don't allow no cussin or smokin dope round here either.

 

I know I would not put so much blood and sweat into a program if I had zero chance to make it the way I knew it should be. I would start up something else.

 

You have decided "it aint gonna happen". No sense in saying anymore.

 

Enjoy..