Troop Tents or Personal Tents

[Its Me]

Our troop currently uses personal tents meaning that the parents/ scouts are left to supply their own tents. The benefits are cost to the troop and all the drying and cleaning are left to up to dad/mom to do on Sunday afternoon. The con to this is, none of the tents are uniform and some are the size of garages while some are the size a pup tent. There is also the "this is my tent and I want X and Y with me." The garage style tents also increase the number of scouts to a small crowd. And we all know crowds don''t go to sleep.

 

With troop tents the "the way I see it" is that the troop can have tents that are practical for backpacking (kids divide up the load) and there is no "this is my tent"

 

I am looking for comments on who is using troop owned tents. What tents they purchased? How has it fared? Are they maintained properly?

 

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[scottteng]

We have troop owned tents and they are not suitable for backpacking. They must be checked regularly and we always find missing stakes, rain fly''s, poles, and bags. I guess that is somewhat better than missing all together. If I had my way which I don''t I would have the boys purchase their own specified size tent. Two and no more scouts per tent is the way to go the chatter goes up exponentially as you add more boys to the mix.

[GernBlansten]

Our troop has troop owned tents, but no one ever uses them. They are there if needed. We allow scouts to bring their own and recommend they get backpacking tents so that keeps them sized to two man styles. I think its good they get their own tents. A sense of ownership. They tend to take of them too. If anything, it can create some friction if both tent mates want to use their own tent and have to flip a coin.

 

Adults on the other hand have some giant Taj Mahals! I often ask if I can setup my one man in the vestibules.

[CalicoPenn]

I''m of the opinion that Troop tents are the way to go - Eureka seems to be a popular brand among Scout Troops that go the Troop tent route.

 

I dare say that the Troop tent issue is related to the Uniform issue. We chat often in the forums about the wearing of uniforms and two consistent arguments in favor of requiring the uniforms is that they provide an identity and a unity of team.

 

Just as uniforms helps provide a sense of identity and unity, so too does a consistent camp set up. When you're at a camporee, which campsites stand out and seem to say "This is a Boy Scout Troop." I''ll bet most of us will say the unit with tents and camp equipment that are uniform throughout. I camp at a lot of state parks throughout the year. During the spring and fall months, I run into many Scout Troops taking advantage of the group sites, of if small enough, using two or three individual sites (most parks allow up to two tents on an individual site - if you only have 4 tents, most parks will allow you to set up on two adjacent individual sites of the park isn't busy). When I see a unit with tents that are the same, I know I'm looking at a group of Boy Scouts - even if they aren't wearing their uniforms. If I see a unit with many different tents, I start to wonder if I have to pack my stuff up in my car every day because this is some school group full of kids that have no discipline (sad to say but there are people who will steal your sleeping bags and pads from your tent in the middle of the day).

 

Let's also not forget that Boy Scouts is about providing opportunities to ALL boys - even, and especially, the ones whose parent(s) barely afforded a sleeping bag, let alone a tent.

 

Without troop tents - what is your quartermaster supposed to do? Here's how we solved the tent care issue. Most of our tents were "two" man tents (they could easily have fit three). All of the tents were numbered and a small stencil of the number was marked on the tent, fly, tent bag, stake bag and pole bag (if any). Before an outing, the Quartermaster checked over all of the tents, made sure they were in good condition and repair (checking tent loops, zippers, looking for rips, free of mildew) and all the parts were present (the checklist included a listing of what should be in the tent bag, including number of stakes and ropes). If the tents passed muster, they were checked out by number to a pair of Scouts. The Scouts were then responsible for making sure the tents were fully dried, all the parts were present, and any repair issues (bad zippers, tent loops, pole sleeves, LEAKS, broken or bent parts) were reported when they returned the tent back to the quartermaster. The tents weren't automatically loaded back into the storage closet or trailer - the Scouts took them home with them to dry if needed. If the tent came back without poles, stakes or bags, the Scouts were responsible for replacing those items (if you have Scout Accounts, the cost was deducted from those accounts, if not, they had to pony up the cash - which is pretty minimal). If the Scouts know they have to pay for part replacements, they'll be very careful about making sure when they take down that they have all the parts. If the tent is put away wet (improperly dried), then the next time the quartermaster checks the tent and mildew is present, the quartermaster looked up the records to see which Scouts checked out that tent last time and it was those Scouts responsibility to clean, reseal and dry that tent. (It's always a good idea to have a couple of extra tents on hand in case one of the tents is not usable on a trip). The only exception to the loss of parts rule (though never publicized) would be an emergency evacuation in the dead of night (most likely in a driving rainstorm no less) where it is not only possible but likely that a few stakes and a pole or two might be left behind in the confusion.

 

How do you pay for tents for the unit? Fundraising! The number one purpose for fundraising is not to provide money for Scout Accounts but to provide money to support the Troops programs - and buying equipment supports the programs. I believe that fundraising should be supporting the units equipment and program needs first and foremost. If those meets are fully met, use the "leftover" funds to pay for troop trips.

 

Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[Lisabob]

Our troop uses troop tents and the boys practically always rely on these even if they have their own. (Backpacking might be an exception)

 

Adults vary - most have their own and use them instead, but that''s a matter of personal preference. As one of very few women, I almost always use my own one-person tent because there''s no one going with whom I could share a tent with anyway. And the one parent who took the Taj Mahal to summer camp this year has taken so much ribbing for it that I don''t expect to see that particular tent at a scout event ever, ever again!

 

Our troop uses the Eureka Timberline tents. They cost approx $120 each as far as I can remember. We have some extras and rotate them in/out of service to spread out the wear and tear. Zippers seem to be a regular issue as kids are not always as gentle as they might be, but on the whole they stand up pretty well to reasonable use. The cost for zipper repair isn''t outrageous and we just factor that in to our maintenance budget.

 

As to how the tents have fared: You have to have a good QM system in place if you go for troop tents, or else things get lost or aren''t properly cared for. Tents being put away wet and dirty comes to mind as the main issue.

 

Hope this helps some.

[insanescouter]

We have troop tents and encourage the Scouts to use them. Adults usually use there own. We prefer the scouts to use the Troop tents, but would consider letting them use their own on request.

 

I can tell you the usually problems we face with tents is holes and broken zippers. One year at summer camp we had a Scout get mad at a Scout in another tent. The mad scout climbed tree below the tent of the other scout and shall we say took a dump on it. You never know what will happen. The tent basically had to be destroyed we could not get rid of the smell. As this was a Troop tent it was easy to deal with, if it would have been the Scouts personal tent the parents may of insisted the Troop replace it.

 

I think you get the point anyway ... Just my wacky 2 cents...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[anarchist]

Its Me,

 

When I was a Boy Scout ( just after the time of Moses)I belonged to a troop that owned its own very old BSA two man canvas wall tents. Still remember the faded pastel green color and the fact that they were heavy suckers. Then after a couple of years of fund raising the troop purchase new fangled BSA nylon tents which were bright orange and very light weight. At the time I did not really appreciate the "troop look"...I was too busy having fun. When my boys came to this troop it only owned two ratty moldy tents...and everyone was expected to provide "private tents".

 

In addition to our camps looking like the circus was in town, the quality and water tightness of tents was all over the place. Parents would try to buy cheap and the kids would get wet or the tent would fall down in the slightest breeze or a strong blow would destroy the tents altogether.

 

Being a gear-head, I started a program to obtain our own troop tents and we successfully obtained 21 Eurika Timberline 2 XTs and 6 timberline 4 XTs (which we use as 3 or 4 boy tents) over the course of about two years.

 

The very first use was at a district camporee and the pride of the boys in setting a camp that really looked like a unit...a REAL BOY SCOUT TROOP was evident. One older scouts remarked that our neatly ordered camp made it actually look like the troop knew what we were doing...whether or not we actually did!

 

They have held up well...we train our quartermasters to be "really anal". Tent is checked out at each event (we use a form) to a set of scouts and checked back in dry and with all parts actually shown to the QM before acceptance...any rain, snow, etc., results in tents going home to dry and QM stays on top of the scouts by email and phone to bring them in ready for inspection before or right after the next meeting.

 

On canoe trips or backpacking if a boy really wants to use his own tent we have no problem with it. But Troop tents mean that any boy regardless of family money situation can be housed in a good quality, dry tent.

 

Adults occaisionally use troop tents (usually at Camporees) but may use their own if they desire. What I have found is many of the parent now own their own Timberline tents...so they can look like they belong...to the troop.

 

We keep a stock of spare parts and repair kits (only need one brand) and we can fix almost anything in the field.

 

Hope it helps

Anarchist

[Its Me]

 

So far:

3 for

3 against

 

I can see that tents like all equipment if neglected falls into disrepair quickly. I can see a parallel between uniforms and unit tents. And the quarter master issues must be resolved. I like the idea of assigning the tent to go home with a scout to be returned dry and tagged for use or repair. But does that really happen?

 

I also like the idea of scouts inspecting their own gear prior to a campout. That''s adult stuff that the kids should be doing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

"I like the idea of assigning the tent to go home with a scout to be returned dry and tagged for use or repair. But does that really happen?"

 

It does in our troop. My son''s tent is drying out on the back porch right now. The boys alternate so that no one is stuck with the tent and the cooler/leftover food. Works fine (as long as each patrol has a qm who knows how to do his job and the troop QM pays attention to them).

[GernBlansten]

Yeah, I guess its where your priorities are. What''s the old saying, "Image is everything." If a neat, military, uniform campsite is your goal, then you gots to go with troop tents.

You''ll never achieve it with a boy owned tenting troop.

 

Adults seem to care about this more than the boys, I''d ask them.

 

[Owl62]

Our troop owns several 2 and 4 man Eureka Timberline tents. Most if good to fair condition. They have see years of use.

 

But most of our Scouts, especially after the first year, tend to buy their own tents - usually small backpacking sized tents. We are fine with that, in fact, we actually encourage it.

 

Saves the troop money and the Scouts have to actually take ownership and responsibility for THEIR tent which they know means the difference of having a effective shelter, or, not.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Our boys use their own tents, but they all own the same model. So I guess we have the best of both worlds. We are a pretty small Troop right now.

 

"Scouts moving under their own power with their packs on their backs are getting into the spirit of a campout long before they reach the place where they''ll pitch their tents. Whenever possible, plan to hike at least part of the way to a campsite."

Scoutmaster Handbook

 

I agree with the above, so we encourage the boys to purchase backpacking tents. We have an REI just a few miles away, so we do a lot of business with them. They had their Half Dome tent on sale for $100, which was a really good price ($169 regular). Most of the boys went out and bought one, so they now have the same tent at camp.

 

I''m pretty sure the boys will take better care of the tents since they own them. I''m not worried too much about the tents all looking alike. I''m more worried about them having a tent they can carry on their back.

[GernBlansten]

That REI halfdome $100 sale sure got our troop more uniformed. Real nice tent for the money. All but one of our Philmont crew had them. We looked sharp on the trail, however we didn''t line them up with a transit to look like a little military encampment. Pesky trees got in the way.

[Gunny2862]

We own and love our ten well used Eureka Timberlines, TL2 Regulars (2 man). If there are more than 18 Scouts and Scouters on a trip we try to adapt by first putting adults in their own privately owned tents until we need to start putting up additional privately owned tents for Scouts - which we still try to keep at two Scouts per tent.

 

Backpacking, you can divide up the Timberline and use it (slightly more weight than a true backpacker and one person will wind up with a little more weight than his partner)or we usually use a variety of Backpacking tents - often donated - because we see smaller groups on the Backpacking excursions.

 

We have not had (knocking on nearby wood) loss issues greater than the occasional tent peg getting bent beyond repair. But we won''t break camp unless we can get the tents dry before we leave (we tend to roll by 10:30 no later than 11:00am on Sunday OR we pack them back to our (Thank you COR) concrete floored extra room where we erect them to dry and then we all meet and put them away the next evening - which is coincidently our Troop meeting time.

 

It''s great knowing that when you are out shopping that if you need more stakes or find some replacement poles on sale that they will fit all of your tents. And that if a tent dies you can salvage it for parts for others that aren''t dead yet.

 

I like the XT''s and will probably try to make the case for them next time around but our regulars have been holding up well. We did take the precaution of uniformly labeling and numbering each tent, tent bag, pole bag, and stake bag in the same locations on each type of item and we teach classes(usually on the excursion) for EVERY person who sleeps in our tentage about how to erect them(including at night), when to take them down and how to store them.

 

Maintenance - we have had no maintenance issues due to our fanaticism about ensuring that they are dry before being stored - these have been well made and our Scouts know that we will not tolerate intentional abuse - as always a ground cloth is recommended and another thing that we ALWAYS use.

 

Campmor has the TL2 Regulars for 99.90 and the TL2 XT for 149.90 in their Fall 07 catalog(the one that was in my office) - those prices don''t move much from catalog to catalog and they give a 10% discount to BSA Troops (see exclusions). (unpaid endorsement)

 

With this tent set up we have an ingrained culture where we don''t really consciously worry about the tents - just ensure that the system doesn''t break and the training keeps going.

 

 

[hops_scout]

We currently own 20 Timberlines. We have the 4-man Timberline Outfitters. All of them have been bought within the last 3 years. No more than two per tent. Adults have their own normally. These are for normal camping in a regular campsite where they can be pulled right out of the trailer.

 

For backpacking (starting to get there) and for canoeing we just bought 9 backpacking tents. I don''t recall the name at the moment, but we bought these for $100/apiece.

 

So we have a lot of money invested in tents and we take extreme care of them.

 

And yes our Scouts are pretty well expected to use them and take care of them.