pads for winter camping

[Lisabob]

Hey folks, I'm looking for some advice on what type of pad my son should get to put under his sleeping bag on an upcoming campout. Temps are expected to be in the single digits. This will be his first serious winter camping experience and it has been suggested that what he puts under his bag is as important than the bag itself. Unfortunately he has received a lot of contradictory advice and neither of us knows enough to have any idea which of it to follow. Some folks have told him that he should get a relatively inexpensive ($30 range, wal-mart type) closed-cell foam or styrofoam type pad, the thicker the better. Others have suggested he get a much more expensive, though thinner, type of pad. At least one person suggests a cot and a couple of others have said to just take a couple of wool blankets to put underneath his bag. I don't think we'll go with the cot but beyond that, any input you have would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Background: my son is a bean-pole 12 year old, no body fat to speak of. He has a good mummy bag, fleece liner, and appropriate poly pro and fleece clothing for sleeping in. But he's always cold. So this is going to be a real challenge for him!

 

[GernBlansten]

Absolutely NO on the cot. A cot will circulate cold air under him.

The best pad you can get is the $15 closed cell blue pad. If you go to REI or some other quality shop, they have the foam that won't crush between your fingers real easy. If it crushes easily, its not closed cell. It isn't meant for comfort, but for insulation. Get one that is full length, not a shorty. Weighs practically nothing and lasts a lifetime. I'm still using a blue pad I bought 30 years ago. You can put your summer pad like a Thermarest on top of it if you need some cushy like I do. But kids do just fine with just the blue pad.

[Eamonn]

I hate the cold!!

I use a fairly expensive Therm-a-Rest self-inflating sleeping pad. I bought it a few (3 maybe 4 years ago)

I like it because it packs well (I have a very bad back so I use year round) I also have the light weight frame for it to make it into a chair. I think it cost about $70.00 on sale.

Looking in the local Gander Mountain store the other day I seen a new pad made by Therm-a-Rest - A light weight sheet of closed-cell foam pad, with a egg-crate form that folded in an accordion style. So it will be good for hiking?? It was about $30.00.

I haven't tried any of the pads that Alpine Mountaineering they seem to sell good stuff at a fair price and are very helpful when you talk to them on the phone. (I bought a lot of cots for the Scouts going to the Jambo and they were really great.)

I think there is a thread about staying warm at night.

I use a good sleeping bag and if I'm not hiking add a sleeping bag liner.

Some things that work for me are.

Remove everything that you were wearing and put on clean dry gear. (I find if I'm clean and dry I sleep better)

I wear a light skull type cap (It's never on when I wake up?)

Make sure the tent is erected correctly and has a good water-proof liner under the tent. (Some people swear by adding hay or newspaper as well I never thought it was worth the effort)

Go to the bathroom just before you go to bed -Nothing is worse than leaving a nice warm sleeping bag to have to go and answer a call of nature.

I like a nice warm mug of something before going to bed.

Scouts seem to want to tie down and zip up everything that can be tied or zipped!! While keeping the wind out,do allow for some ventilation. If you don't the condensation inside the tent will freeze.

Eamonn.

[frank10]

Since he is a bean pole, also have him bring a wool blanket inside his sleeping bag to take up the extra space. other wise every time he moves the bag acts like a bellows blowing out the warm air and then sucking in the cold.

 

 

[local1400]

Lisabob, Gern and Eamonn are right on. I use a close cell foam pad AND several wool blankets under me. And I have plenty of body fat. The ground draws the heat out of your body so the wool adds another layer plus it makes the pad softer. I prefer the Army surplus ones-they seem to last longer.

[Kudu]

I bought a half-dozen of the blue closed-cell foam pads to loan out to Scouts who turn up for tent campouts without them.

 

They cost about $7 each at Wal-Mart, not $30. I think Wal-Mart calls them "Camper's Pads."

 

I switched to them myself when my expensive Therm-a-Rest sprung a leak at a winter campout and I discovered that the cheap $7 Wal-Mart pad that I had placed under the Therm-a-Rest kept me nice and warm.

 

At $7 each, two (2) mats are better than one because you lose much more heat to downward conduction to the frozen earth or snow than you do to upward radiation through a good sleeping bag. Having two pads also doubles the "comfy" factor and allows a Scout to spread them out a little if he tends to roll around and off the pad while he is asleep.

 

I was glad that I always carried two of them when one time while staffing a Council Okpik course, backpacking at temperatures in the single digits, my buddy's expensive Therm-a-Rest sprung a leak 15 miles from the parking lot :-/

 

You can pay more than $7 for closed-cell foam mats that look more high-tech with sculpted channels and designer colors but I do not believe they are any warmer.

 

Kudu

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Beware of the cheapo Walmart pads. They are thinner and not as dense as a camping store might carry. Although two might make the thickness of one quality one.

[Kudu]

GernBlansten,

 

My $7 cheapo Wal-Mart "Camper's Pads" are thicker than any of the $30 mats that I have looked at. Two of them are about three times the thickness of the expensive ones. You might want to check before you buy because mine are a few years old.

 

I've slept on a single $7 mat many times and I can't imagine anything else being any warmer. The advantage of using two of them is the increased comfy level without the potentially serious problem that you have when your Therm-a-Rest springs a leak many miles from the trail-head. I admire Eamonn's courage because I would not want to find out how well a Therm-a-Rest patch kit works at 3 AM when the temperature is 10 degrees below zero :-/

 

The simple test of the insulation value of two different mats is to compare the indentation in the snow of two campers (caused by body heat melting the snow) after you roll up the tent. My cheapo $7 Wal-Mart mat wins every time. YMMV.

 

Kudu

 

[GernBlansten]

Consistancy in Walmart suppliers varies. The last blue pads I saw at Walmart were nowhere near the density or thickness of the pads at camping stores. Walmart probably got them cheap because other camping retailers rejected them. However, I'm sure their buyers have purchased some quality ones from time to time. Just do some shopping and see if they are a good deal.

I'm all for doubling your pad system in the winter. In summer I use a backpacking inflatable that would be way too cold for winter. But put it on a closed cell pad and it works great.

[Eamonn]

Some of our Scouts have the inexpensive blue mats. -I'm unsure what store the pads came from and I'll admit to never having used them, but from what I have seen the pads don't seem to want to unroll.

I watched a guy try and blow up some over-sized Coleman pad the other weekend. It was to be inflated with some sort of rechargeable pump. Somehow his wasn't charged.

As he puffed away he didn't look like a happy camper.

Ea.

 

[Kudu]

A couple of weeks ago I tried a Coleman closed-cell foam. Does anyone know the price? I believe they are a little more expensive than the Wal-Mart pads but probably still cheap enough to justify buying two.

 

The Coleman pads are a little wider than the Wal-Mart pads that I have, but not as thick. They are a nicer green color, and have a couple of attached drawstrings that make it very easy to tie them into the rolled-up position. I was skeptical at first of the tie-strings, but they really are a nice feature.

 

All closed-cell foam pads are so light that you can strap them anywhere on the back of an internal or external frame pack without messing up your weight distribution.

 

If you go with a more expensive brand avoid the denser versions that have sculpted ridges cut into them. Whatever the theory is (denser foam does not bend as well), a single ridged mat melts a LOT more snow under it than does using two of the cheap mats.

 

I watched a guy try and blow up some over-sized Coleman pad the other weekend. It was to be inflated with some sort of rechargeable pump.

 

Standard blow-up air mattresses are on the "Absolutely NOT" winter camping list. They circulate cold air under you all night and thereby draw the heat away from your body through a process called convection.

 

Kudu

[Gags]

Adding my .02 worth:

 

Anything made of closed-cell foam will be what you want. Probably the best way to tell the difference between open and closed cell is that you can usually tell right away that the open will absorb water (think hospital bed "egg crate" cushions).

 

In a camping store, you'll find the plain foam pad ($7+ blue pad from Walmart) and the name brand pads. Since he's younger, I'd stay away from the thermarest "self inflating" pads. One bad stick / rock underneath, or subjecting it to the typical abuse of a 12 yr old, and he'll be sleeping on a deflated balloon.

 

I still use my black pad bought 15+ years ago - kills my shoulder if I try and sleep on my side, but fine for back and stomach sleeping. Probably about 1/2" thick. I now put it under my inflatable thermarest to avoid another puncture. If you have a problem unrolling it (as Eamonn mentioned), just flip it over so it curls "into" the ground - as soon as you put a bag on top, it will flatten out.

 

Thermarest makes at least 2 closed cell foam pads - the ridge rest - which is just as it sounds, made of ridges that supposedly trap more air, and the Z-rest, another egg shell package design that folds up like a map, accordian style - designed again with the whole air pocket idea. VERY easy to fold up and attach to your pack, but both models usually approach the $30 mark.

 

In the end - if he hasn't really been using a pad before, then there's no need to introduce that much "luxury" at this point in time. Just get the cheapest pad you can find (and thickest if available), make sure it's long enough so that his feet won't hang off, and enjoy the winter weekend to yourself! (if you're not joining him, that is).

 

And if you need really cheap insulation - newspaper also works wonders.

 

Gags

[Lisabob]

Ah, once again I appreciate all your advice! I guess I just found it hard to believe when a few adults from his troop told me that there isn't much performance difference between a cheapo and a more expensive pad as long as it is a) thick and b) closed cell. We have a few weeks before he goes off on this adventure; between now and then we'll do a little shopping around (and dig out those wool blankets too) so thanks again for pointing us in the right direction.

 

 

[local1400]

Newspaper is a great insulator. The homeless have survived many brutal nights because of it. However, the newsprint can stain your tent floor and other gear and when it gets wet, its wet and messy.

[Owl62]

Except for backpacking, I normally use two sleeping pads. One closed cell foam on the bottom and the other a ThermaRest look-a-like self-inflating on top of the closed cell pad. I use this method in all kinds of temperatures. My old bones just need the extra cushioning. When backpacking, I just use a closed cell foam pad. Always full length on both pad types.

 

Besides the extra cushioning for thermal insulation and comfort, the closed cell pad on the bottom helps keep the other pad and your sleeping bag dry. Tents almost always leak or have some condensation in them regardless of what you do to prevent it.

 

These days though I almost always use a low cot - with the closed cell foam pad and the self-inflating pad on top of it, under my sleeping bag. I have never had a problem with being cold with this type of set up. In fact, it is warmer than just using the pads on the tent floor - at least to me.

 

I chill easily and make sure I am always prepared to sleep warm. I don't like mummy sleeping bags and usually use a retangular bag. In the winter I wear a knit cap that has covers the face and neck with an opening for my eyes, nose, and mouth. A regular knit cap comes off during the night.

 

For most Scouts, for most applications, I recommend a full length closed cell sleeping pad.