RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Hello everyone...so I have a question about backpacks for all of those of you who have some knowledge about them. Im going on my first hiking trip and think it is crucial to have a hiking backpack. With that said I am debating between getting an external backpack or an internal one. Ive been told that the external ones are lighter, can carry a more heavier load than an internals one, and are cooler on the body. As far as the internal ones are concerned Ive heard that they hug the body and provide better stability. Im personally looking for a big backpack that have a lot of cubic inch space. I want something that is also comfortable. And finally I want one that can carry a sleeping bag at the bottom and a tent along side. Ive personally saw an internal one that I really liked (Kelty red cloud 6650), but recently Ive read that internal backpacks are more narrow and for skiers or people that go off-trailing or rocking climbing. Im not rock climbing or skiing and probably will only be doing a little off trailing. Ive also heard that internal ones are harder to pack and get to items that you need, while external have more compartments to put things in for easy access. I dont really like a lot of small compartments all I really need it one big one and a medium one. The small compartments are so usless. Sorry I guess Im kinda going all over the place here. If anyone could give me some advice and tell me what is true and what is not out of the things Ive heard, Id really appericate it. Thanks a lot. Tim P.S. I heard that external ones are better suited for kids, well I for one am 21 just for the records in case anyone is curious about my age before giving an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I purchased a Keltey Red Cloud 5400 4 months ago. So far so good Have used it 4 times. With the new fabrics there is not much difference in coolness between internal and externals. Internals are just a little cooler. The big plus with externals is that you can strap stuff on the frame itself, making more room. When you say you do not want little compartments, make sure you have a minimum of 3 pockets on the outside of the pack to put thing that you need to get to on the trail first aid kit and so on. The biggest thing is to make sure the pack fits, go to a good store and they will measure you torso, and they can tell you what size pack you need. I am 6'4" and the 5400 just fits my torso. It is just a matter of perfence for internal or external, I did not like how the externals fit me. Some internals are for skiing and mountain climbing, but not all. Now IMHO at 6000 cubic backpack is to big for anyone! If you go to www.backpacking.com they have instructions on how to measure your torso. Go to www.campmor.com and look at the backpacks they have there, and you can see the difference between skiing and normal backpacks, I got mime there for 80 bucks, is was a last year model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Tim, You don't mention if you are a scout leader or not. If you are I recommend you attend Introduction to Outdoor Skills, and whether you are a scouter or not check out the BSA's Field Book. Can a one pack carry more than another? Probably, but it would depend more on the construction and capacity of the pack more so than just one element of whether it is internal or external frame. More important than what the pack can carry is...what can you carry. The recommended load is 25% of your body weight. packs have lots of compartments for a good reason. Why does your dresser have more than one drawer? Why not just put everything in one bog drawer? Because, what happens when you want something at the bottom? Packs have multiple storage so that you can conveniently get to everything you need, without unpacking every time you want something. Can you pack a sleeping bag inside? Yes on some, no on others. Can you pack a tent inside? Which tent? Which pack? Can you fit a lot inside? If you are serious about this you will learn not to pack a lot, you pack what you need. Which pack is best? I don't know. Which car is best? What tool is best? What color is best? It has nothing to do with best. Which one do you like, that does the job, that you can afford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 "The big plus with externals is that you can strap stuff on the frame itself, making more room." So basically what your saying is you can strap a lot of things (pillows, sleepingbags, etc.) on the frame since it is external. Right? Then question for you...what made the internal more appealing to you compared to the external? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Hey Bob, in respone to your reply, I just think a lot of small compartment are a waste, thats not to say that I dont think regular sized compartments arent useful. And as a side question...what would you say the average about of sets of clothes that an experienced camper would bring over a 7-10 day trip? Thanks Keep the advice coming guys I really appericate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 On average I would say most campers take too many clothes. Assuming moderate weather with chance of showers. A pair of boxer style swim trunks preferably in a fast drying, light weight material as supplex, A pair of breathable rain pants. 2 t-shirts, one long sleeve, one shortsleeve, A breathable rain jacket, a fleece jacket or pullover. A hat with a wide brim all the way around. 3 pairs of liner socks, three pairs of boot socks (one to wear, one being washed, one fresh pair to change into). A well broken pair hiking boots for the trail. A light weight pair of tennis shoes for in camp. (I like to have a pair of fleece gloves for chilly mornings and nights. At least 1/2 gallon of drinking water. (Never go hiking without clothes or water:) ) Higher altitudes or more severe climate will require additional clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureScoutNY Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 RazorTceps, in what way are you involved in scouting? I do not believe there is a perfect backpack, good ones, sure, bad ones, sure. There are pros and cons to both internal and external packs. The best way to find out which pack you will like most is to borrow from a friend each kind, and take them on a trip each. Maybe a few trips if you can not decide. Get a feel for both of them and make a decesion. Packs come in all sizes and shapes, with big pockets and small pockets, wide pockets, and deep pockets. Again, its up to you what kind you want. Dan is correct when it comes to small easy accessable pockets. For first aid kits, water, map, compass etc... "what would you say the average about of sets of clothes that an experienced camper would bring over a 7-10 day trip?" What kind of trip? Winter, summer? Challening trip? Rocky Mountains or city park? Your question depends on the season, and the place. Take a look at the Boy Scout handbook. In it, you will find guidelines on what to pack depending on what situation you are in. Goodluck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 People keep asking me if I am a scout or not or if I read the Bsa...I am not a scout and I havent read the bsa. However Ive been on a bunch of camping trips just not backpacking ones. Keep advice coming thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Oh and by the way I dont have any friends with backpacks that I can try out so Im kinda at a loss there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Well you came to a good place for some answers. The reason we are asking is that the informatyion you are seeking is pretty common training in scouting for youth and adults. Since this is a scouting forum it seemed unusual questions coming from someone with a scouting background. You are more than welcome here and we are glad to offer our varied opinions. I still recommend you pick up a BSA Field book. It has been one of the most respected camping resources in and out of scouting for decades. It is a great resource for preparing you for a backpack trip. If you are looking at 7-10 days in the backcountry there are far more important considerations you need to be thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTceps Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Im kinda interested in the scouts now that you mention it. I bet you I could meet a lot of cool people that are interested in hiking and planning trips if I join. However I must say Im really not into all that merit badge stuff thats for kids. Id like to do adult scouting. Have any ideas on where I should look to get started. By the way Bob do you use an external or internal backpack and what are the specs on yours. Btw do most Kelty and Lowe Alpine backpacks have a lower portion where you can attach a sleeping bag? -Tim Feel free and give me your opinions on external and internal backpacks for those of you who have read this and have responsed. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Sorry Tim but you are at least 3 years too late for earning Merit Badges. I 'm glad to hear you enjoy hiking and camping it is a great activity. enjoy it. Consider being a Scout leader when you are ready to develop ethical decision making in youth. To us as adult leaders, outdoor activities are tools to teach values and ethics, the outdoors is the classroom not the lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Sorry Tim but you are at least 3 years too late for earning Merit Badges. I 'm glad to hear you enjoy hiking and camping it is a great activity. enjoy it. Consider being a Scout leader when you are ready to develop ethical decision making in youth. To us as adult leaders, outdoor activities are tools to teach values and ethics, the outdoors is the classroom not the lesson. Oh, right, the backpack thing. I used the same external frame pack from the time I was 22 until I was 43. (I paid $42 for it at an army navy Surplus store) years ago I bought my first internal frame. Its a north face, I dont remeber the model or capacity, I know it holds everything I need for a week and room to spare. In has a top load upper compartment, a face load lower compartment which is water proofed to hold the sleeping bag. it has 4 external compartment and and a cap that detaches and becomes a fanny pack. It has 6 sets of straps to adjust load, fit and sway, plus a sternum strap. It has two external mesh water bottle pockets and a dasiy chain down the face that I strap my sleeping pad to.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Packing the gear, and how many pockets the pack has are really secondary issues (not unimportant, but secondary), in time you'll learn to deal with those things . External and Internal framed backpacks carry differently, as do different manufactures and styles of packs. You should really find a local store that will help you fit the pack and allow you to try on some different models. Then choose from the most comfortable models. I have an Internal frame Gregory Whitney. The great thing about Gregory packs is that they can really be customized to your body. Its true that you can hang everything including the kitchen sink from an external frame pack, but do you really want to do that? It might be wiser for you to build into your system, some kind of limiting device like an internal frame pack. In that way you will prevent yourself from carrying too much stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike F Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Razor, Good discussions. You'll be amazed at what you want handy in those smaller pockets. I use mine for things like rain gear, pack cover, toilet paper, soap, water purification tablets, compass, knife, little bit of cord, sunscreen, bug stuff, trail snack, camera, maps, change of socks, sunglasses, small first aid/blister kit, etc. If you can't find one to borrow, you can rent gear at some outdoor stores. If not local, you might be able to find stuff close to your hiking area. I've flown into Albuquerque and rented gear from REI a few times before driving north to trailhead. Good backpacking gear can quickly add up to some serious money - I'd definitely try things out before buying. Backpacking is not for everyone - make sure you like it before investing heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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