Troop/Patrol equipment trailers?

[acco40]

nldscout, your comments, "These belong to the troop not the CO. The boys earned the money to purchase them, not our sponsor.", made me chuckle. Who do you think owns the troop? That's right, the CO. The trailer and the equipment either belong to an individual (a scout or scouter) or the CO. The "troop" doesn't own anything.

[LauraT7]

our troop does not have an 'equipment' trailer - tho we own (our CO owns) a number of trailers and vehicles FOR the troop.

 

We do have a troop bus - so when the troop goes somewhere, the boys MUST ride on the bus and the trailer driver is alone or poss has one adult in the tow vehicle for company.

 

since joining the troop, I have most often been the 'tow' driver. We have a 20 ft two axel flatbed with 30 bicycle frames, an 8 canoe trailer, and an open 8 X 10 (converted horse trailer). We once rented an 8 X 10 enclosed U-haul.

 

I enjoy towing the trailers - I have to admit part of the enjoyment is watching the dropped jaws of the dads when I pull in in my "mom van" and back that huge bike trailer in to place on the first try. ( lol ;-) ) The other advantage is in having my own vehicle on campouts - I've been known to tuck in a few 'extras' - tarps, extra raingear, a couple of old sweatshirts that have come in handy - and a prevented a few disasters. (if we had a traditional covered troop trailer, those 'extras' i stash would be part of the troops regular equipment - but no one likes to carry for extingencies, when they have to be packed by hand)

 

Recently we've not always used the bus - I have only towed the Canoe trailer with boys in the van with me. I've towed the flatbed any number of times, and the u-haul - but not often with boys in the vehicle to distract me. I can do it, but would prefer not to - just makes sense, safety wise - if there are enough other vehicles. The flatbed is by far the longest and widest - and the easiest to handle - it tracks the best, and is the oldest and heaviest trailer. I agree with those above - I think its the double axels that make the difference.

 

I would like our troop to get an enclosed trailer. Our committee wants us to use the open trailer - but it needs major repairs and to me - defeats the purpose - it would have to be loaded and unloaded from the quartermaster room for each and every trip - just like our bus or parent vehicles. It also would not keep the weather and critter out of our supplies like and enclosed trailer would. But I don't get to make the decision - that's just my opinion.

 

Loading for each and every trip individually does cut down on the 'stuff' we bring - but it also cuts into our friday departure time and Sunday return times - a reason why our troop USED to only do Sat night campouts.

 

Enclosed trailers are great - Especially for summer camp - because as nice as the bus is to have - you can't park it at your site, most of the time we can't get anything NEAR our site and have to haul it all in on foot. What we usually do is take the seats out of my van, load the heavy troop equipment in it - patrol boxes, tents and stuff - i drive my van to the site and and we unload. but i also can't KEEP my van in site. I tell you - when you are LIVING on site for a week - a trailer is handy. I think it encourages the boys to put things away, and gives you a place to lock stuff up away from the coons & weather. For summer camp and camporees, where you want the full set up - lashed sign, troop shelter and all, they can't be beat. It's like having your quartermaster room on wheels.

 

Trailer camping is not appropriate to ALL camping situations, however. and some troops get locked into having all that stuff with them.

 

_________________

 

whatever trailer you do decide to get - here's a tip i saw and liked that another troop did -

 

They built shelves along the sides of their trailer inside, leaving an Aisle down the center. They had one 'deep' side and one 'shallow' side - they built plywood shelves, 18" or 12" in height - allowing them to use pre- made white wire shelving as drop down 'doors' to secure the equipment on the shelves and keep it from dumping in the aisle during transport. they also 'sectioned off' the shelves lengthwise to keep things from shifting front to back. the wire shelving is strong, cheap, can be cut to any size, easy to clean and lets you see equipment behind it. It also ventilates and lets more light in when the main equipment is unloaded. the floor space was taller - for larger, heavier items, & had a 2 X4 mounted to keep things from sliding into the aisle at floor level, with eyebolts mounted in it and the wall as tie downs.

 

i could see alot of ingenuity in this idea - they could even prop out some of the 'shelving doors' for a work surface if needed using "L" brackets. Spaces could be fastened & subdivided securely, - rearranged as equipment needs changed - even padlocked if necessary.

 

i thought it was really cool.

 

 

[nldscout]

acco40,

I don't want to get into that timeless discussion on equipment and funds ownership, but before you say a troop doesn't own anything you have to look at the Laws of the state in which you reside. In our state a Scout troop is considered a legal entity by its self. This is not true in a lot of states, biut here the state recognizes the "Troop" as the owner, not the CO.

 

That is why national in its R&R is so vague, cause the laws vary so much from one stae to another.

 

On that note I will say no more on this subject.

[Overtrained]

As to the insurance issue of the trailer. If your charter organization has an existing policy, you can add it to it. We have done this with our troop and then pay the CO for the cost.

If you don't want it covered for damage, it doesn't need to be insured at all.

 

The liability is extended from the insurance of the vehicle that is towing the trailer.

 

As to the Cargo truck that was mentioned, you will have to get business auto insurance and have every driver listed and rated. I don't know that a CO would want to do this on their policy. They are not cheap either.

 

Overtrained

Insurance Agent

[Eagledad]

Hi KS

 

We know of several troops here in Oklahoma City that store gear in the trailers. But a couple of troops have had their trailers stolen with the gear in the last year. Council sent out a warning that Troop trailers were being targeted. We added extra locks to our two trailers.

 

We looked for trailers than can be pulled with minivans so we didn't have to rely on a haft ton size trucks. One troop in our town has over 110 scouts and they pull up to four smaller steel trailers to campouts. That seems like a lot, but find four cars and minivans to pull those trailers is a lot easier than finding a truck that would be need for one or two trailer for that size troop.

 

We found that around 900lbs empty is a reasonable weight for a car or minivan. Aluminum trailers are a little more pricey, seems like about 200$ or more for the same size steel trailer, but they last a little longer because of rust. Wheel diameter limits your total weight. 14 inch wheels limit total weight around 2300 lbs give or take, where as a 15 inch wheel bumps you over 3000 lbs easy. Forget a 13 inch wheel because they just can take the road wear of a troop. Total weight is important because if your not careful, you can load more weight than the car or trailer can safely haul.

 

Barry

 

[eagle90]

We have a 8 x 10 Pace American one axle trailer which has served us well for ten years. In fact, we just replaced the tires for the first time this year after a blowout on the way home from summer camp! in Illinois the trailer is titled to the Troop and it is also insured in the Troop's name ( the insurance is nominal - about $25.00 per year).

[rlculver415]

I was so intent on getting the name of our trailer that I forgot to find out its size. We recently bought a larger trailer - a Horton Hauler (makes me think of Dr. Seuss!). Our insurance is not very expensive, and covers the driver and his vehicle when the trailer's being towed. Our SM stores it on his property, but there are several of us with enough acreage to keep it without offending neighbors. We also modified it with shelves and such to suit us. I have not noticed that possessing a trailer has altered the way the troop camps, nor have we had any thefts or vandalism. Perhaps we are lucky. Perhaps such occurences, while acknowledgable, are not so very common. The trailer, like the uniform, has been known to open doors for us.

[LauraT7]

I can't quote you book and page number, but I believe it's against BSA policy for 'troops' and packs to OWN things because they are not a legal entity and can't therefore, enter into a legal contract - to purchase or liscence something like a vehicle.

 

Although the government allows you to title anything in almost any name - they apparently don't check to see if it's a 'real' business that 'owns' it.

 

If the troop trailer rolls out of it's parking place in the SM's backyard and flattens the neighbor's above ground pool, which floods into the other neighbor's basement and knock out power for the whole neighborhood - who are they going to sue? the SM? the Troop? BSA? none are going to want to claim responsibility and most do not have the ability to pay for the damage.

 

you need to avoid the 'grey' area of the CO 'owning' the troop, which in turn, 'owns' the equipment.

 

it is for these and other reasons that our troop has been changing over the "ownership" name and address on all our vehicles to that of the our CO church, as they come up for renewal. the equipment will and has outlasted many troop scouters, boys & church ministers & staff. (our CO is a methodist church)

[beaver1onit]

We just got a new trailer 3 weeks ago, that we purchased through Wells Cargo. The best thing the troop did,all our equipment is in one place,just hookup and go. One thing you should do is check with other troops that have one and see what worked and what didn't. Our trailer is 10'long x 6'wide x 6 1/2' high with dual back doors,side door,single axel with electric brakes,LED lighting,stone guard,spare tire,flush side venting and 3/8 plywood lineing. We are putting steel baker racks in 6'high x 4'long 18''deep. We also solicited donations from local business and will list them as supporters on the trailer. Check it out and see what works best for your troop. What its costing you to rent space for a year you could almost have half the trailer paid for.

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Very interesting reading all these posts. I'm particularly interested in how a few go about soliciting areas businesses for donations. Our DE forbids us from doing so as he says this limits his ability to ask as the business tell him "we just gave X$ to the boys scouts." We would love to have a trailer and these ideas will be helpful. I forget who mentioned it but Uhaul no longer sells the "retired" trailers due to liability issues. One of our ASM use to be a district manager for Uhaul and they quite that years ago when he worked for them.

[packsaddle]

That Uhaul thing is good to know. Our DE also forbade us from similar solicitations. But I know troops in his district who list 'sponsors' on the side of their trailers. The policy seems to be applied unevenly. Because we asked, our DE has placed us in a position of closer scrutiny. So we are paying for ours through regular fundraisers where we sell hot dogs or similar things to the church or the public. It's slow but effective.

[dsteele]

It's not just your DE forbidding units from soliciting funds from businesses.

 

Units soliciting funds from businesses and giving nothing in return is a violation of BSA fund raising policies and, in many cases if not all, a violation of state laws if the unit does not have a license.

 

The council has a license. Unit fundraisers can't just be hands-out donations -- a car wash is a service you pay for, people buy popcorn and receive popcorn, etc.

 

The DE was probably the one who put the kabosh on soliciting businesses, but they were only doing their job -- which most are good at. What we tend not to be good at is explaining to volunteers the reasons behind the decisions. Your DE may not even know the reason -- they may have asked their supervisor, "Can Troop S do this?" the supervisor may have simply said, "No."

 

My theory is that most folks feel better when they know why a thing exists, even if they don't agree with it.

 

DS

[KoreaScouter]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have seen the Wells Fargo trailers, and wasn't aware that the dual axles gave such a handling advantage.

 

Living in Hawaii is great, but three things you just don't see here are Cracker Barrels (the restaurants), Olive Gardens, and cargo trailers. I don't know why, unless it's a combination of lack of trailer storage space and small-island-nowhere-to-haul-anything. That's why I was originally considering the retired U-Haul.

 

We're still looking...

 

KS