fuzzievohs Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Our patrols want new tents. They are looking at tents large enough for the entire patrol. We have 2 man Eureka tents, so we'll still be able to backpack. But for plop camping, they want to all be in one tent. Any other troops do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 How Many Scouts are in Each Patrol? Some Tents are designed for 6-8 People or more...But I honestly can say that very few are comfortable with gear for More than 4. If you look at the Sleeping Arrangements on Paper there is never any room for gear. Short of getting a Military General Purpose Tent which are huge I doubt you could find a Tent Comfortable for More than 4 with Gear. They will need room for Gear..Moving around.. But If they can all get along I see no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I say 2 man. It just divides easier and they are easier to set up. We usually have more problems with boys staying up all night when they are in 3-4 man tents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzievohs Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 How Many Scouts are in Each Patrol? 5-8, most camps with 4-6. I agree that two man tents are better, and we have them...but the scout-led PLC thinks they want patrol tents. They've raised the funds and agreed to the alternate arrangements if they are up past lights out (get up, set up 2-man tent, in the dark). I'm game to let them try it...it gives them an opportunity to learn more about group dynamics. I was just curious if other troops use patrol-sized tents, and if so, which models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolesen Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm not a fan of troop tents at all, and understand that when the boys raised the funds, it's hard to say no... If you have the Eurekas, A Scout is Thrifty. We let the boys bring their apartment sized family tents for car camping, but I'd seriously rethink buying a second set of tents for the troop. Is there other gear that is in need of replacement or procuring? Maybe you should let them try using a family tent before spending money on an experiment or a whim. If it works well, commit the funds. I know too many people who bought boats, jetskis, four wheelers, motor homes or campers thinking they'd really enjoy the great outdoors, just to have them serving as lawn ornaments 50 weeks out of the year... It's an extreme example, but we've got a few pieces of well intended troop purchases which never leave the QM shed.... Again, A Scout is Thrifty. It's the most overlooked point of the Law at times. Remind the boys what it means, and ask them to get back to you.(This message has been edited by Eolesen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I have always had two boys to a tent whether the tent is 2 man or 4 man. 4 man offers a bit more room but encourages a problem of packs in tents and being rough on the floors. 4 man also adds weight to the backpacking populace. When I was a kid in scouts the patrols all had huge canvas wall tents where everyone could fit in. Lot more social, but room was still a problem. Some of the scouts preferred their own 2 man tents and would opt to use them instead. A lot of this discussion would be resolved if one were to decide whether they are backpackers or ploppers. One could easily plop camp with backpacking tents, but would find it impossible to backpack with family sized tents. I have both kinds of tents and plan my activities accordingly. However, the troops aren't financially equipped to have that option. I'd go with the 2 man/4 man tent option, with preference towards 2 boys in a 4 man tent. For backpacking, the one boy takes the tent, the other poles and fly. Even the 4 man tents are doable if broken down like that and if it is a serious backpack trip, 4 boys could use one tent and other gear spread out to the boys not carrying shelter. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA_Scouter Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm with Fuzzy. The patrols have done all the leg work and fundraising and likely announced their intentions well before they had the money raised so its too late to shut 'em down now. Its not a safety issue. They should carry out their plan. How fortunate that these scouts have adults who encourage this manner of self determination and decision making! To address the original question, no, we don't do large tents for any campout. Regardless of whether its a backpack trip or a car trip we treat 'em all as lightweight/minimal gear outings. The only addition to a car camp trip might be a cooler for fresh food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 If they raise the Money..They earn the right to choice what Equipment they Purchase...That is how our Troop Worked. If we wanted a particular item we earned it. When We wanted a New Dutch oven we went out and raised the Money and bought how many and which brand we wanted..We donated a lot of Great items to the Troop. And we were fully aware that items were not personal since we solicited the Funds as Boy Scout. Every Penny Left Over went into General funds. If the Funds come from a General Unsolicited Donation or Charter Organization Funds then Committee Decides what Equipment is purchased..after all they Ultimately are the Owners of The Charter Equipment. Like already Mentioned..Discuss Ground Rules on Behavior when the Large Tents are used..Lights out..Food in Tents etc..Failure to follow the Rules will disallow the Use of Large Tents. Myself I think Scouts are getting weak when it comes to Camping.. I grew up scouting and sleeping in Wall and Baker Tents..No Floors...No Zippers..Bed Roll on Ground no cot. When Everyone Started buying their own light weight 2 Man tents I continued to use a Canvas Tent..I am looking for one for my personal Tent now..either that or one of the Carport Type with Side Walls..a Nice 10x20 Wall tent is over $500 a Carport is about $200.. Netting and Bug Sprays is what you need for Camping not Zippers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Personally, I am just as happy to relegate DDT and dirt floors to the history books! I recommend 2 Scouts per 4-man tent. Son hated 2-man tents, he never fit well (6'2" by 7th grade) to begin with, and adding another Scout close to his size made it significantly more uncomfortable. Using 4-man tents allows for comfortable room for all ages/sizes of Scouts. If you don't want packs in the tents, purchase tents with vestibules. Fuzzievohs, I realize this was a PLC decision, however has anyone discussed with the Scouts what happens if they spend the money to buy all of these large tents, try Patrol Tenting, and then decide they don't like it? Will the tents be sold off on Craigslist for a much reduced rate? Will the Scouts purchase them from the Troop for their personal use? Will the tents sit, and quietly mildew away in a cupboard somewhere? What happens if next year's group of Scouts decides they don't want to tent as a patrol? Or the year after that? And, just a side note, "ultimately" the "Owners of The Charter Equipment", and all Scout equipment, is your local BSA Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 ScoutNut wrote: And, just a side note, "ultimately" the "Owners of The Charter Equipment", and all Scout equipment, is your local BSA Council. Really Does the Local council pay registration fees on Troop Trailers? Do They Pay Property Taxes on the "Scout Huts" If They Own it all then They Need to maintain it.. We need new Batteries for the Troop Lanterns they should provide since it is their Lanterns Oh and the trailer which is their's needs a new inspection and registration and tires The Ownership belongs to whom ever paid for it.. Responsibility lies with whom ever is using it at the time. Personally I hate using "Community" property because If it breaks I replace it usually with a lot better and a lot new item. Going By what your saying then the Council has the right to come take anything they want when they want because it belongs to them..New Troop no problem go shopping and stock them up from existing troop supplies.. A tent here and a Stove there..oh and maybe that other troop's cots.. they have 40 but only have 20 boys registered now so they don't need them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 From the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America - Article XI - "All money raised by or received for the benefit of a unit or local council and all property acquired by a unit or local council shall be deemed to be received or acquired solely for the benefit of Scouting as interpreted and promoted by the Boy Scouts of America." "In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I agree with the others that big tents are a poor choice. Apparently your troop does nothing but car camping. Even doing car camping, finding enough open ground to pitch a large tent can be a problem. Two man tents are clearly preferable. Having said all that, perhaps it would be best to let the boys live with their choice. This mistake does not enganger anybody. It would merely cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggie Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Being from the other side of the pond, I'll support the patrol tent. Nearly all of the camping under taken by my group uses patrol tents (and modern equivalents) for cubs, scouts and explorers. They encourage a patrol and community ethos in away a 2 man tent cant. We have a real mixture of tents from expedition 2 man Guerber tents, though 5 man light weight tents, to Khyam 8 man canvas tunnel and ultimately good old fashioned Icelandic patrol tents (wall tents). Having girls in the pack/troop does force you to think a bit more about setting up the patrols but ultimately it helps the patrols to gel together. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 eisely wrote :I agree with the others that big tents are a poor choice. Apparently your troop does nothing but car camping. Even doing car camping, finding enough open ground to pitch a large tent can be a problem. Two man tents are clearly preferable. Apparently I have no idea who your making that statement to, other than Apparently me because the Original Poster stated they they use small tents at appropriate times. Locally Yea our Troops do tend to "CAR Camp" because that is just about our Local Options. We are not blessed with wondrous scenery...Our youths tend not want to hike by the side of the Road nor do they want to Backpack in 100*+ in Full Sun. Obviously Your State Parks and Camps differ from My Texas Area Parks. At Camp Perkins our Local Scout Camp even a Blind Man could find enough room to pitch 100 20 x 30 GP Military Tents and Not Be close to each other..There is 1 Tree within the Established Camp site area. eisely wrote : This mistake does not enganger anybody. It would merely cost money. Why is it a Mistake? Simply because It does not meet your way of doing something? Well Scouting is not a 1 Style fit all program. You are not giving the scouts a fair chance to prove themselves. Your assuming every single scout can not follow rules because You assume they automatically violate lights out. Why not make every scout bunk by themselves, that way we know there won't be no horse play at all at lights out. Make every scout miserable because you want them to be cramped in a Small 2 Man Tent.. I prefer to give each scout an opportunity to prove me right or wrong eisely wrote :Having said all that, perhaps it would be best to let the boys live with their choice. I will say I agree with that statement. Scouts tend to enjoy the program more if they enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Scoutnut that sounds great in writing... But you will notice several things.. First It mainly applies to Funds...Specifically Funds directly Solicited for Scouting..Not From Church Collection Plate passing on Sunday and you will notice that it states that even if a Unit is disbanded the Charter Organization holds Equipment in Trust. So a Church who buys a Camp Trailer owns the Trailer not the BSA. A Charter Organization who buys tents owns them not the Local Council Most of our Charter Organizations tend not to run Specific Scout Fund Drives..If a Troop around here needs money for stuff we have to ask for funds from the Charter Organization through our Representatives. We don't have Bank Accounts over flowing with Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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