"Designated Scouting activity or event"

[PABill]

"Designated Scouting activity or event"....that there line seems to be causing a bit of confusion in our troop.

 

First a little background, our troop is pretty new (2 patrols, one new and one a year older) and we have some good adult volunteers getting trained. We are really trying to get the Outing back in Scouting (only 4 campouts last year counting summer camp) in our troop and have made great strides with Boy led and the patrol method in a very short period of time, basically we just stopped what we were doing (adult led) and started over (boy led). I will say, it has been an easier transition for the scouts than the adults!!!

 

Now, our charter org. has a hunk of land behind it that used to be used by the Troops of old years ago and the Churches youth group, it is a pretty good piece of land, rural farming area with some houses here and there. Campfires/ and outdoor burning is allowed in our area so that is great. The CO has said we could use it if we wanted, we just need to get back there and do some clean up at the old campsites. I and some of the other parents are pretty excited about this, mainly because of the cost of some of our few trips and we could camp at a good location for free.

 

The SM isn't necessarily against it, but has said "it doesn't count as camping", while my read on the rules is it IS a Scouting activity and it will count. Far as I know as long as you are camping by troop or patrol it counts. The only thing that doesn't count is family camping or school activities...as long as it is with the troop, you are good.

 

Am I off the mark here or is the SM?

 

 

[DLChris71]

In my opinion it would count, however I would not make it a habit to camp there. Perhaps use it for troop meetings and shake out over nighters.

[FScouter]

What difference does it make what name you attach to the event? Do it and have a good time.

[Eagle732]

Did you ask him why it doesn't count?

 

My ASM owns 60 acres of beautiful wooded property 5 minutes from our meeting place. We camp there once a year, it is the troops favorite place to camp. I count it as a camping trip. Don't know why I shouldn't.

 

Since your CO has this great place to camp you might want to consider using it for a Webelos Open House recruiting site. We do that with lots of outdoors activities for the Webs and have had great results.

[Eagle732]

FS, I think the concern is the trip counting towards advancement.

[Oak Tree]

So, technically, for the merit badge, the counselor gets to decide what counts. I think this would pretty much be a designated Scouting event. It's hard to see how it wouldn't be. What I think the Scoutmaster is saying is that he wouldn't count it as "camping". He may be trying to disguise the argument, but if you are doing this work as a troop activity, it's hard to see how it wouldn't be a Scouting activity.

[PABill]

Wow...thanks for the fast replies!

 

This is a real nice piece of land, it is heavily wooded, I haven't measured it out, but I would guess at least 10 acres, still has a road into it and a few clearings from the camping that used to take place there. Surrounded by farmland and a few residential houses here and there. It would definately be a good camp, there are NO facilities of any kind.

 

As for making a habit of camping there...that isn't my intention, but we NEED to get camping and get an outdoor program in place. Webelos open house is a great idea.

 

Yes I was concerned about the camping requirements for advancement, we have all these new scouts, this place being so close would really help shake things out for our other outings, but parents being parents they also want to make sure these outings "count" for advancement.

 

I will try to get the SM on the same page, this should work out well for the Troop and our Pack in the long run.

 

NOW.....if I can only figure out how to get the adult leaders to camp AWAY from the scouts!!!

[qwazse]

If the boys organize it and coordinate other volunteers in the clean-up, I would count it as a troop activity for first class requirements.

 

If you let my troop camp there, I promise you my SM will count it as a camping night for our boys.

 

So I guess if your boys camp there, they should count it for a camping night too! That said, because it's local, you need to decide what to do to make it an adventure for the boys. Maybe a hike to one of the farms to learn about its operation? A pioneering project? Making stations of the cross for the CO?

 

I personally see it as a great location to do an ILST course. Any teaching materials are just a walk to the church.

 

You get the idea. If the boys are taking advantage of the proximity just to avoid spending a day with the troop, showing up at the end of the day and running home before breakfast, I would not count it. But, if they are cashing in the reduction in travel time to be productive, it would qualify in my book.

[ScoutNut]

Has the SM said - exactly - WHY he feels "it doesn't count as camping"?

 

Has he said what he DOES consider camping?

 

Can he show a BSA publication that agrees with his concept of what camping must be?

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, great for outdoor meetings!

 

Just fine for a local weekend campout.

 

I'd explore da issue gently with your Scoutmaster, dependin' on what your role is in the troop. It would be the SM's discretion on what "counted" for T-2-1 advancement, so in the end yeh should defer to him, but as a point of comparison I expect most Scoutmasters would "count" it.

 

FWIW, if you're runnin' a strong program, your boys will always have more than the minimum number of outings at the time they hit each of da early ranks. It just really isn't possible to get 'em the required skills without more time in the field (rare lads that camp every week with their family aside...)

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish]

So maybe he thinks camping out behind the CO is the same as if the scouts set up a tent and camped in their own backyards?

 

And if that was the case, I would understand his reasoning behind it even though I disagree with his final diagnosis based on how you described the property: 10 acrees, no facilities and the clearings are minimal.

 

I guess I could understand if he's wooried that scouts may run home real quick because they forgot "X">

 

In my troop, we like to meet up, do a shakedown, and then all head out to camp all together at the same time.

 

No, what I just said above does not actually make or break what qualifies for camping, but is something we do as a troop as part of camping.

 

Again, not saying I agree with the SM, but I understand his line of reasoning - IF that is his line of reasoning - even though I do not agree with it.

[SSScout]

Depending on how it is arranged, you could hike in with your packs almost a mile into a ten acre lot. Half a mile anyway. Park at the CO and hike in . Leave the cars' trunks behind.

Sounds like "Scout Camping" to me.

Sound out your local zoning requirements (got a plumber in the Troop?) and build a privy. Is there a spring? Carry in water? Drill a well or establish a hand pump. What more do you need?

My Scoutson was VERY dissapointed when he could not count our Yearly Meeting camps for his Scout camping MB requirements. 5 days and nights on the AT, canoeing and bicycling camps, every bit as strenuous and "Scouty" as Philmont , but can't count it for MB.

[Stosh]

This might sound flippant, but here goes:

 

Anytime one puts on a scout uniform, in my book, it is a scout activity. If adults organize an activity, no problem, why would it be any different if the scouts organized it? If the boys like to camp on this parcel of land, have a great time, practice their skills, and want to wear their uniforms, I have no problem camping every weekend and calling it a scout activity regardless of the "opinions" of the adults. After all, it's the boys' program, they should be calling the shots anyway.

 

If a patrol wants to camp without adult supervision and have parental permission for each scout, they don't wear scout attire. Then I would open up the discussion with the boys as to whether or not it counted as a "scout activity". If they came back and reported they camped, did the cooking, hiked, and did scout like activities, I might, as SM, relent and count it as a scout activity even though the adult supervision wasn't there.

 

Now, however, under the new rules, I would, hmmmmm, probably do the same thing.

 

Stosh

[Mountaineer]

I see no problem with counting it; doesnt matter its done on the CO property.

 

Just guessing but the issue may be because its a local trip. On occasion, I have seen issues were guys would leave, go to a soccer\baseball game and come back. Sometimes bringing their fast food bag with them on their return. Others would come for the day but not spend the night, etc. While you want to be accommodating and understanding it can be a distraction for the guys that are there for the long haul.

 

In the scenario I just described, who gets credit? If you did not spend the night you certainly dont get credit. What if you were gone 3-4 hours during the afternoon and missed most if not all of a major planned activity? See where the problems start creeping in. When you are at least an hour away and you travel to and from as a group, this rarely is a problem.

[CalicoPenn]

One of my all-time favorite camping trips taken with my Troop as a lad was the one in our CO's back-yard. Our CO was a church right in the middle of downtown suburbia, with strip malls with grocery stores, etc. on the other three corners, the fire station a block away, and in one troop members case, his home right next door to the church.

 

The COR that year thought it would be a great idea if the Troop would set up camp at the church during one of the weekends we held our annual pumpkin sale at the church to show the public, and the church, just what it is we do - did I mention he happened to work for one of the big Chicago advertising firms?

 

Friday night, we all gathered at the church after dinner, set up camp by Patrols, complete with campfires for cooking (the Church let us dig pits in the grass so we could show how to make them "disappear" at the end of the weekend and the Fire Department gave us permission to have campfires). The church let us use the facilities in the building (which we cleaned throughout the weekend, just as if it were a regular duty roster job). We spent the Saturday selling pumpkins, demonstrating Scout skills, working on advancement, just as if it were a regular camp-out and had a Patrol Pumpkin Carving contest. We even had a hike to the park district pond and creek for a bit of fishing and nature study. We held a Troop campfire at night, complete with singing and skits, and candle-lit jack-o-lanterns of course, having invited members of the church and folks who bought pumpkins to come by that night and join in the fun. Our sister Explorer Post (which was the OA Lodge's de-facto dance team) did a few dances at the campfire (we were camping as part of the Troop anyway) and we did some star watching. On Sunday morning, we made breakfast as a Troop because we had invited the church's Men's Group (our official charter organization) and the Pastor and their spouses for breakfast before services. By pre-arrangement, the Pastor cut short his services that day (he skipped his sermon) and invited the congregation to join the Troop outside for a Scout's Own service run by the Troop's Chaplain and Chaplain Aide to complete that Sunday's church services. Afterwards, we provided coffee, hot cocoa, tea and dutch oven donuts to everyone as part of fellowship with the Church. I can tell you, this event was well received and talked about for a long time afterwards. We even got a couple of new members out of it.

 

Did it count as a camping trip? You betcha! Do I need to mention that not one Scout or Leader went home until the campout ended? I doubt it.