Culling crew members

[Twocubdad]

What critera do you use for selecting crew members to HA bases when you have more guys going than you have space for?

Draw straws?

 

The sons of the crew advisors are in. One of those two will age out before he has another chance to go, but I would consider that a reason for an automatic in. All the rest are either First Class or Star and 14 or 15 y.o.

 

Do any of you use subjective selection criteria?

[Eagle732]

Will you be able to place those who don't make the cut with other crews?

[boomerscout]

getting their payments in on time is worth a point

going on all the training activities is a point

can you run two separate crews, or has been suggested, have some go as provisional with other groups?

 

[Twocubdad]

We've got a last-minute, fill-in slot at Seabase. The six openings is a hard number and there are no other trips available around us. Going with another group would be wholly separate from out trip.

 

Does anyone disagree with drawing straws among the five Scouts?

[Eagledad]

We do what Boomer Scout suggest, payment on time and participation. And usually, someone has to bail for some reason or another. Hasn't failed yet, but I'm sure we will be in your shoes one day.

 

Barry

[boomerscout]

drawing straws it is, then.

If it is OK with the odd man out, I would inform SeaBase you have a potential provisional for any slots that may open at the last minute.

It's a tough situation. One I would hate to be in.

[BadenP]

twocub

 

I agree with some of the others here, but IMO you have the potential of losing that odd man out scout from your troop when he is unable to go. I doubt the boy will want to fill a slot with a troop where he doesn't know the other boys or leaders. Instead of drawing straws I would make sure that all the boys REALLY want to and are fully committed to going on the trip. I would talk to all their parents to make sure they are fully committed to supporting their son going and not planning a last minute withdrawal. Good Luck!

[CalicoPenn]

You have 6 youth slots and 7 lads ready to give you firm commitments complete with down payments? Unless you have at least one youth who can't make a firm commitment to the activity, I'd be cancelling and planning an activity that all of them can attend together rather than leaving it to chance - and if I did leave it to chance, there would be no one that gets in automatically - everyone gets the same chance and if you lose an advisor over that, find another adult to go.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a case of having 6 spots and 10 people, or a case where someone is obviously an outlier (is the only Scout in the group that is 2nd class, or 13 - well, except tha lad that's about to age out) and a decision can be made based on that - in this case you're going to have 1 - just 1 - Scout that will be left out - and that's going to hurt the lad no matter how he is "culled" out. My suggestion, before you "cull" someone out, is to call the parents to ask if the committment will be firm on their end or if it would be best to make their son a back-up crew member in case someone else has to drop out.

 

 

[boomerscout]

Forgot to add that the advisors' sons need to be included in the drawing of straws

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, a lottery seems like the fairest method that is least likely to cause resentment.

 

I agree with you that you have to have the advisors' sons go on the trip. We haven't had to deal with the situation, but it does seem like a lottery, a wait list, and some criteria for staying on the attendee list (making all payments on time) are reasonable.

 

We would likely give preference to someone who is going to age out, for whom this would be the last chance.

[qwazse]

The boys have a lifeboat problem! Ask them what they think is the best way to solve it.

 

If all 5 of them have put $100 (or whatever your monthly payment would be) down, let the boys know that drawing straws is okay. But, it's their call. If they want to sit in a room and talk it out, that's fine.

 

Unless your troop has some deep pockets, I would strongly encourage you to remind each boy that money is non-refundable unless they find their replacement and he is willing to negotiate deal for that open slot.

 

If any boy does not have any money in the game, yet. He's out.

 

Let them know that you will do your best to help the 'odd duck' find an adventure with another troop. Otherwise, he gets his deposit back.

[Twocubdad]

This is a bit of an odd duck of a trip -- relatively speaking a last minute trip to Seabase (this July/August). We're accustomed to planning Philmont trips over a much longer time frame with many -- if not most -- crew members turning over in the 18 months or so a Philmont trek is in the works. With only four months to go, without the gear and training requirements of a trek, I don't expect the same level of turnover.

 

Of course the guy with the short straw stays on as the first alternate. But given the circumstance of the Seabase trips, adding slots or a second crew just isn't an option -- it's an 8-person boat and two have to be adults. Those are just the parameters. You really think it reasonable to pull the plug on the trip because we have one guy too many? How does that work for the 17-year-old who doesn't have time to wait for us to win a lottery slot where we have more control over the paramenters. (We did put in for a more accommodating slot in the lottery, but didn't get it.)

 

Maybe your troops are full of volunteers who would take two weeks of vacation and pay $1500 to go on a trip their son got the boot on, but we don't. If we had another father/Scout pair waiting in the wings, that may be a different situation, but recruiting these two leaders wasn't a given. And none of the other parents are willing to go. Putting the leaders' sons in the lottery just isn't reasonable.

[Gunny2862]

I agree that the children of the traveling adults have to get a pass on the lottery, unfortunately for the chances of the others, most aren't selfless enough to leave their child behind while shepherding others kids, often even on a weekend trip. To ask it on a "once in a lifetime" trip that costs 1000's of dollars may really be asking to much. However that also means that that parent and child combo are committed to go on and able to pay for their trip.

[boomerscout]

a favored position versus taking chances in a lottery. This just doesn't seem to reflect the Law; certainly not loyal nor kind, not sure about courteous or trustworthy.

One kid is going to get the black spot just so a 17 year old can go on an overpriced trip. Methinks the 17 year old would be better served by going alone on an Outward Bound courae in sea kayaking

Under the guidelines of all for one, and one for all I would choose to cancel the entire activity in favor of something else

 

[qwazse]

IT'S ABOUT THE BOYS!!!!!

 

If they think it's worth passing on this trip for the sake of unity, then, Boomer, they can pass on the trip. But I've seen a lot of opportunities, small and large, like this. Generally, a boy would prefer to take a chance at being left on shore so his buddies can make the boat.

 

It's not a "black spot", it's an opportunity to use that cash towards a different adventure.

 

TwoCub, you have your head on straight. Give them the options. Tell them what you think is important. (E.g., sons should be given a long straw.) But, leave the decision entirely up to them. Heck, I'd leave the room and tell them when I come back they should have either a roster with their alternate or a blank piece of paper and we'll make plans to do something else that week.