To Camp or Not?

[skeptic]

We were scheduled to do a drive in camp to a location on the California coast near the beach in Malibu. No fires are allowed, so cooking would be charcoal or gas. Our weather forecast has a major storm moving in now, and it was predicted earlier. The forecast has actually gotten worse since I decided Wednesday night to cancel, due to the weather. Having camped many times in inclement weather, I know how to do it, and I understand we should try to not cancel outings if possible. But, with a coastal foothill location, possible thunderstorms, and moderate to heavy rain in a flood prone area, it just seemed the best choice.

 

A few of my long time Scouter friends seem to think we should have gone anyway, and dealt with it. Should we, just for the "adventure", camp with such a forecast, and let them learn to "survive"; hoping of course that we do not get flooded or worse? I honestly feel that I made the right decision, but am I just getting too old to deal with it, so decided in this manner, or am I doing the "smart" thing, based on the info at hand?

 

Just wanted to throw it out for discussion. Aside from the possible dangerous issues known to occur here at times (hazardous weather training?), why would you want to get all your equipment wet most likely, especially since you cannot even have a real fire?

 

Comment please. Would prefer not to deal with the "real scouts" attitude though.

[Eagle69]

Not wanting to get the equipment wet is a weak argument for canceling a campout, that is going to happen anyway.

 

Possible severe weather with lots of rain in a flood prone area, now that would make me think about about going. When individual/group safety is on the line it is better to err on the side of caution.

 

I cancelled a December campout on Friday once when a river suddenly sprang up in my back yard and the forecast was for the rain to continue. A quick conference with my CC and other ASM's and we all agreed that we didn't need to be out where had planned in weather like this.

[BadenP]

skeptic

 

As a former resident of California I have experienced those coastal storms personally and with my troop at the time, I think you made the right decision. Our troop experienced a terrible mudslide from the storm, lost alot of equipment as well. The only postive note was that the local authorities allowed the troop to assist with rescue and aid efforts.

[Roadkill Patrol]

Some of the factors we try to decide if we are going to cancel are:

 

Is your troop made up of mostly older scouts or relatively younger scouts? Ours is mostly younger, inexperienced scouts, so that would lead me to deciding for our troop to cancel the event if we were camping in the conditions you described.

 

The other factor is how long is the weather going to be severe? Did the storm show on radar aa a sliver that was going to pass over quickly or did it look like it was going to go on for hours. No one likes to spend most of the campout in a tent or under a shelter without much to do.

 

To me, you did the smart thing and went with your gut. No one wants to have to "learn to survive" on the fly. You can always camp another day instead of something going wrong and saying "we should have canceled."

[Stosh]

When in doubt....

 

This is the gut check that says:

 

1) This is a bad omen forming on the horizon that may be dangerous.

2) This is a situation I may not be able to handle even if it isn't all that dangerous.

 

Either way, it gets cancelled.

 

Stosh

 

[Basementdweller]

Safety of the boys is first and foremost.

 

If you have any doubts cancel

[SeattlePioneer]

I'd probably look for an alternative place to do the outing.

 

Choosing not to do an outing because of hazardous weather conditions in the area is one of the responsibilities of a leader.

[SR540Beaver]

Campsite selection is one of requirements for T21 rank advancement. Be prepared is the motto. For the months most prone to bad weather, we have a backup location in our plans......but we have cancelled for things like 2 inches of ice on the road or cut a campout short when freezing rain and sleet was destroying tents.

[Oak Tree]

Would we have cancelled? Probably not. It all depends on some of the specifics of the situation, though.

 

Chance of flooding? Well, it depends on whether or not you think there's a chance you'd be trapped in a flood. If the worst that would happen is that you'd have to pack up due to rising water, that wouldn't have been a reason for us to cancel.

 

I do think that bad weather can make for good adventure stories. We wouldn't cancel just because it wouldn't look like fun. We might cut a trip short if the weather is getting bad at the end of it.

 

Why go, even if you can't have a fire and the equipment will get wet? I'm thinking I'd go because there are lots of fun things to do in the outdoors.

 

A big reason we don't cancel is that we don't we want people to be thinking that we might cancel. Don't really want the Scouts trying to lobby for cancelling a trip. Don't want to deal with the logistics of canceling. Don't want anyone to think "this trip might not actually happen" as that can subtly affect their willingness to sign up for trips.

 

If some of the leaders were uncomfortable with the safety conditions, we would normally have two possible answers:

1. Go anyway with the leaders who are comfortable in the situation, assuming that there are enough of them.

2. Switch to an alternate location.

[Beavah]

Yah, I just had to shake my head at the wet tent comment. Silly Californian. Most of us in the rest of the land only camp in the rain. It seems to follow us around like a stray mutt.

 

I also wonder a bit about cancelling on Wednesday. Around these parts, a 2-3 day forecast is about as accurate as readin' pigs entrails for a sign.

 

My real question, though, is "What did your youth leaders think?" I'm not sure why you were makin' the cancellation decision. That's the stuff that the SPL or the lads who planned the trip should be making. How else are they goin' to learn those important lessons of character and judgment?

 

Now if the boys decided that the troop wasn't up to a particular set of conditions (because of age or experience or gear or just how bad the conditions were), then I reckon the next question I'd have for 'em was where we were going instead? The preferred choice in most cases should be to divert to an alternative, not to cancel.

 

Only you and your lads know the area, the conditions, your gear, and the experience level of your troop, so I wouldn't presume to second-guess your "no-go" call from afar on the merits. The only leaders worth respectin' are the ones that can make a no-go call when they need to.

 

Beavah

 

[qwazse]

I review go/no-go decisions with youth on Thursday night, and we work toward a consensus. (For the venturers I print up the NWS forecast and the hourly weather graph and put it on the table with no explanation and say, "Interpret." Then we work through the implications.) Unless:

 

1. My drivers don't feel up for it. (E.g. old tires + fresh snow + hills.)

2. The ranger report is truly threatening.

3. Conditions are completely the opposite of what we've prepared anyone for.

 

Any of the above and I'm cancelling grudgingly the hour before! SM and I did so last month (impending ice storm).

Even then, I give a careful explanation to the youth in charge.

 

And yes, I'm still second guessing a month afterword!

[Engineer61]

"That's the stuff that the SPL or the lads who planned the trip should be making."

 

So, if the 14 or 16 yo SPL says, "Yep" you go? That is completely outrageous!

 

Thanks for helping tonight's sleep.

[Engineer61]

I agree with you Skeptic....the size of that storm looks messy...even here in AZ.

 

Most in the East have no concept of the flash flooding.

 

Growing up in Central Ohio, I've seen flash flooding, but the stuff we get out west is 10 times worse.

 

Another factor with the rain is the last wildfire season and if there is enough vegetation to hold the dirt on the hillsides...

[acco40]

A good Scoutmaster will educate his SPL and other leaders. I've been in heavy rain in the New Mexico desert - get the heck out of the dry riverbed - and in Michigan, Canada, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Ohio, Indiana, etc. I've had a tornado go by within 500 yards of our campsite when only thunderstorms were predicted.

 

They key is proper planning and then taking appropriate actions based on that planning. I tend to think of the decisions we made as alterations, not cancellations. And when we did such a thing, the youth were involved.

[TAHAWK]

As has been said, it's a matter of judgment. No one here has any more information than you had. I too have experienced heavy rain in California where hills were present - and helped dig for bodies. I'm in Ohio now, and few here would fully understand. Drive south a few hours to West Virginia, and they get it.

 

As for who's call this is, safety is a non-delegable responsibility of adults. That's the deal we agree to as Scouters. Scouts can be a force multiplier and extra eyes but it's your call.

 

Having said that, not involving the troop leadership in a discussion would miss an opportunity. Discussing the situation with those leaders is also respectful of their roles as leaders. They can then pass on the word and the reasoning to the other Scouts. It's also an opportunity for them to come up with "Plan B."