Tent camping at basball game=merit badge worthy

[noname]

like the title says, merit badge worthy? The requirements are camping in a tent, Thats what we do-camp in a tent. Does it matter where? If you lived in the city this would count would it not? We live in the country with access to over 1,000,000 acres of public land within 30 miles. Sad but I hope to wake up the committee that we have become this...

[KC9DDI]

Which merit badge? Camping, I presume?

 

I believe the requirement for the camping MB states that the Scout must camp 20 nights in a tent or under the stars. Spending one night tenting at a baseball game event doesn't seem like it would totally ruin the advancement program to me.

 

The requirement states that the camping must occur at a designated Scouting event, but doesn't have any additional restrictions, so what would be your basis for not "counting" this?

[perdidochas]

Reading the letter of the law (i.e. the merit badge book), I would count tent camping after a baseball game as one of the twenty nights needed for the Camping Merit badge.

[Twocubdad]

Short answer is it is the merit badge counselor's call. Neither the committee or scoutmaster get a vote.

 

It would depend on how this campout fits in the overall context of the troop program. Honestly, if your program is running well, Camping MB is a gimmie. The guys should blow through 20 nights camping and pick up the MB as an afterthought. It is typical for out scouts to take Camping their second year at summer camp -- mostly to cover all the classroom stuff. By then they have well above 20 nights.

 

But I can understand a scenario where one scout doesn't participate and is trying to squeeze nights camping to reach 20. In that case I may have a conversation with the counselor and make sure everyone has the information they need to do what is best for the Scout and the program.

 

If meeting the 20 night requirement is a push for the average Scout in the troop, the conversation with the committee needs to be about the troop's outdoor program.

 

 

[Jay K]

I've posted my take on Camping Merit Badge camping elsewhere. I agree that it's the Counselor's decision, but I say Hurrah! That's a creative campout! The other 19 can be the "Same old" camporee, Scout Camp, and wilderness survival events.

 

By the way, did everybody notice the change from "You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement " (in the 2011 requirements book) to " One long-term cdamping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement." (In the 2012 requirements book?)

[qwazse]

I have been trying to propose this to my youth for football season: pick a location near the field. Camp there after the game. Even invite scouts from the opposing team if you know them. Heck, invite girlfiends to stop by the campfire until lights out. Rack up camping nights. Have fun.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

I agree with Jay (above) and Qwaze.

 

 

Sounds like a fun night of camping to me.

[noname]

Thanks for the encouragement! Google baseball scout camping ect... this is at a minor league teams field. There are a bunch of these scout sleepovers out there.It is scout nite with council getting a piece of the action.Lets play ball!

[Horizon]

Fully support it. Our Troop used to campout on the field at the local Relay for Life site. We had 24 hour clean up and support duty, so our guys would get to pitch tents there. It was one of our more popular campouts for the older Scouts, thanks to the high school girls that would come by to do the relay late at night.

 

If 1 of our you annual campouts is on the field - great! I am going to look around here and see if we can do the same.

[SSScout]

Yep, a valid reason to go "camping". Any excuse for a party, er, I mean, tent set up. Do they allow a breakfast stove?

Our local Frederick Keys sponsor this, and last I went, they had a "stove area" for warming up breakfast stuff, but that may have changed, it has been a number of years.

 

And a movie screen, and a rocket launch, and a free bag of popcorn....

[Outdoors]

Just another example of how the outdoor aspect of scouting now is a complete joke. Sure, there are individual units that do things right but it is up to the volunteer leaders to get the boys outdoors. Neither the program nor council nor national seem to care - if they would, requirements would be tougher and training would include more than classroom touchy feely nonsense. (like forcing the leaders out on a multi day back country adventure - BSA training should never ever ever be indoors if you ask me - even if it is raining - but thats a topic for another whole conversation)

 

Strictly speaking, yes this would count unfortunately. But personally, I would rather see a 4 day 3 night backpacking trek over 40 miles up and over high peaks where it is common that a night or 2 or all may be in a lean-to or remote cabin. Since your miles from any road you are cooking with your backpacking stove with food you carried and water you purified from the nearby spring or stream. If local regulations allow perhaps you are lucky enough to build and cook over an open fire. Maybe even eat some wile edible plants (But no no, cant do that in scouting anymore) But would that night count for camping merit badge? Nope, it was in a lean-to. But the night spent at the minor league ballpack with a movie playing on the big screen, and buying pizza and hot dogs at the concession stands counts.

 

Now I ask which scenario is really more in the spirit of outdoor camping?

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I would rather see a 4 day 3 night backpacking trek over 40 miles up and over high peaks where it is common that a night or 2 or all may be in a lean-to or remote cabin.

 

WEll wouldn't that be awesome! Then you could officially say that my troop would only go "real" camping once a year as it is 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to those high peaks, and streams where the scouts will have to purify that water before drinking it.

 

Leaders having to take alot of time off from work. Scouts missing alot of school as they would have to have 4 day weekends to do it. Of course, the scouts probably couldn't afford to go since so many parents are taking off so much work to be the adult leaders - their paychecks are lower.

 

And the scouts couldn't earn the money since they would be too busy making up all kinds of missed school work due to the 4 day weekends needed to travel 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to go "real" camping.

 

But what if your troop CO is in the mountains?

 

Wouldn't that pretty much be just camping in your own back yard?

 

Where's the spirit in that? I guess your troop would have to drive 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to the Atylantic Ocean, where you'd camp on a flat beach - next door to condos, hotels, seafood resaurants galore, tourist traps, beachwear shops, and hot dog stands.

 

Wow! 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins of traveling and you'd still miss the spirit of camping!

 

So...has your troop ever ordered a take out pizza?

 

It's a shame if you did because you missed out on using a DO and that is part of the real spirit of scouting too.

 

But if you just do it in a pinch or one time.....well, maybe it's not such a disturbance in The Force afterall!

[Basementdweller]

There should be no debate....here is the requirement....It says absolutely nothing about location....

 

a. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

 

So realistically he could just cowboy camp, no tent involved.

 

So if the merit badge councilor says that his tent camping at the ball field does not count then he is adding requirements.

 

Camping at these sports games are fun....give the kid a break...... We camp at a soceer game and minor league baseball....it is a lot of fun.

 

I will add that if we are struggling to get 20 days of camping the outdoor program in his home troop is suspect. our first year scouts get 21 days from march thru december.

[Outdoors]

Scoutfish, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

 

"WEll wouldn't that be awesome!"

 

Actually, it would be.

 

"Then you could officially say that my troop would only go "real" camping once a year as it is 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to those high peaks, and streams where the scouts will have to purify that water before drinking it."

 

Huh? There is all types of camping. Centerfield is "sleeping in a tent outside" which qualifies for the MB. It is absolutely not backcounty camping. It absolutely requires zero scout craft skills to do.

 

One of those council camp at a ballpark events is offered at my council this spring. Those high peaks, streams, and woods are about an hour away. And yes I went to the ballpark camping last year and yes I had fun. And yes I think units should go. No, I do not personally count it as camping. I may or may not go this year as I will let my son decide if he wants to go see a baseball game and a movie on the scoreboard or go sleep in the woods. I suspect he will want to go sleep at the ballpark because that is a once a year opportunity where sleeping int he woods is a weekly opportunity from may-sept. And we'll go and have a blast.

 

 

"Leaders having to take alot of time off from work."

Boy, I said something that upset you, take a chill pill. Actually, over a long weekend not much if any time off of work. It depends on the kind of work you have. If you are not willing to ever take a vacation day or a weekend day or a holiday to spend with your son on a scouting trip then I can not help you.

 

"Scouts missing alot of school as they would have to have 4 day weekends to do it."

Funny, in your area kids go to school 52 weeks a year? Where I am from there is thanksgiving break, xmass, feb, april, and this long time off in july and august called 'summer'.

 

"Of course, the scouts probably couldn't afford to go since so many parents are taking off so much work to be the adult leaders - their paychecks are lower."

Again, what are you talking about? MANY places as I describe are FREE. Only cost is cost of food and gas to drive the truck there. Some places cost $8 a night at remote campsites, lots of other options are free though as it depends on the location. Do you want to camp at an established busy tentsite that has a caretaker, or do you want to find a stealth site somewhere in the random woods that costs nothing (assuming you are the required 200 feet away from a trail and do not build a fire) And again, where is all this time off of work if you do it over long weekends, alternate adult leaders from trip to trip, or take paid vacation if you have it? Or here is a thought, let the boys do fundraisers to pay for the $0 to $8 a night camping site fees plus few bucks per meal that it costs.

 

"And the scouts couldn't earn the money since they would be too busy making up all kinds of missed school work due to the 4 day weekends needed to travel 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to go "real" camping."

 

You make me laugh. And please let me know where you live so I never visit there, I would not want to live anyplace where kids go to school 52 weeks a year and never have summer vacation.

 

 

"But what if your troop CO is in the mountains?"

That would be great! I wish it was.

 

"Wouldn't that pretty much be just camping in your own back yard?"

Yup!

 

"Where's the spirit in that?"

I never said camping requires one to travel long distances. You made that up.

 

"I guess your troop would have to drive 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to the Atylantic Ocean, where you'd camp on a flat beach - next door to condos, hotels, seafood resaurants galore, tourist traps, beachwear shops, and hot dog stands."

 

Why would I do that if my CO is in the mountains? That would be silly. Oh, and the Atlantic Ocean, beaches, condos, hotels, seafood restaurants (yummy), tourist traps, beachwear shops, and hot dog stands are only about 60 miles away. That might make for a good trip to, break it up a bit and offer variety. It wouldn't be back-country camping though. Thanks for the suggestion, maybe not so silly.

 

 

"So...has your troop ever ordered a take out pizza?"

Yes, and it is fun! Camping is not the only thing scouts should do.

 

"It's a shame if you did because you missed out on using a DO and that is part of the real spirit of scouting too."

Nope not a shame, it is another activity just as valuable as camping. This thread was about camping and you seem to have gone all on a hissy fit.

 

"But if you just do it in a pinch or one time.....well, maybe it's not such a disturbance in The Force afterall"

 

Seriously though what exactly is your problem and what on earth did I say that ticked you off? I meant no offense and have no idea what I said. If something offended you I apologize. I briefly compared 2 types of activities that are available to scouts both of which are things they should do. Only one counts towards camping merit badge (the ballpark) and is something I did myself last year and was allot of fun. Fun relaxed are trips are very important. The other (back-country camping) in my opinion offers an opportunity for boys to challenge themselves, to get out of their comfort zone, to experience something they may not have before, to leverage their scoutcraft skills they have learned and put them to use in the field, to do more with less, to use their brains instead of technology, to make do and improvise solutions to problems using the limited resources that nature provides. I could go on and on. And if you do that back country camping in tents that that too counts towards the MB. If you happen to spend the night in an open adirondak style lean-to (extremely common around here) than that does not count officially for the MB, but I think the trip as a whole would require more scoutcraft skills.

 

A scouting program that had only one and none of the other would fail. There is a time for fun activities and a time for outdoor activities. I classify sleeping in a tent at a ballpark as a fun activity. That is my opinion. I classify back-country camping as an outdoor adventure. That is also my opinion. Apparently you do not share that opinion and your are perfectly entitled to that. I don't know why you went off the deep end here.

 

Nobody can deny that the outdoor program in scouting as a whole has been watered down over the years, that is a fact. It is also a fact that BSA did that on purpose in 1972 and has since tried to pull back from that mistake. They are creating and pushing the various high adventure camps which offer these types of activities. But they are most likely very far away (they are for us) and cost a ton of money (more than I will ever spend). I feel very strongly that if you have the adult leadership with the relevant skills and experience and you are lucky enough to live near a natural area that provides these resources then you should take advantage of that and put on these types of trips on a regular basis.

 

I have no more to say on this particular subject, I gotta go plan my next camping trip.

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Ya know outdoors most of us don't live within an hour of the mountains......I looked and Fish does live 5-8 hours worth of driving from the mountians. Let me see, my kids get off school and arrive home at 4:30 in the car and to the CO by 5. That means we would arrive at the trail head from 10pm-3am. then we need to leave no later than noon on sunday to return......

 

a 4 day weekend would ease the burden, but spending 16+ Hours in the car isn't fun for anyone.

 

While the ball park isn't traditional high adventure it is still camping none the less.