Scout leaders leave them cellphones alone

[lrsap]

First of all, BD got me and appropriately so. In an attempt to come up with an attempted humorous reply in support of the OP I totally glossed over the most important point. While mistakes were made that can be evaluated and corrected, this troop is obviously doing something right. Four boys, alone in the woods did not panic and did everything right. And that above all should be the what we take from this story.

 

The one thing I have to take exception to is from Beavah (whom I have taken and applied many things from on these forums). Beav, the comment

 

" Four well-equipped and experienced scouts being out for a night perhaps doesn't constitute an emergency, eh?"

 

is one that most certainly can be in the eye of the beholder. When you take the same situation and describe it as

 

"Well Mr & Mrs A,B,C & D, we really don't have any idea where your boys are on this river, but they know how to build a fire so I'm sure they're ok".

 

I fear the governor's red phone will be ringing off the hook to dispatch the National Guard.

[Beavah]

 

I fear the governor's red phone will be ringing off the hook to dispatch the National Guard.

 

Yah, I'm sure it would, eh?

 

But I reckon that's just because of our modern neuroses, living as we do in the Home of the Terrified, despite what we sing in the National Anthem.

 

Now I'm not sure what state the lads were in, eh? It sounded to me like they had camping gear with 'em in the boats, but that's just my guess. Certainly, they weren't in any real danger in this case, what with temperatures up here being unusually mild. But we toned out a half dozen or more agencies and a whole gaggle of volunteers. While we had 6 local fire departments, two state agencies, two county sheriff's services and others out, those fire departments weren't available for rapid response to an auto accident where someone's child might be in danger. They weren't available for the fire that might claim the life of a family breadwinner. They might not make it in time for the young girl who is choking to death at the local McDonalds.

 

When we put dozens of people on boats and ATVs in thick forest in the dark, we put those volunteers and rescuers at risk as well, eh? They suffer the real chance of being seriously injured or worse. When yeh fly a helicopter at low altitude in the dark over unlighted areas, that ain't risk-free either. This SAR could have gotten people injured or worse.

 

Da notion that the "government" is there with massive resources to swoop in and rescue us because we went a couple miles in the wrong direction and call 911 is fundamentally a selfish one, eh? Because it's far from cost-free. That's also da sheriff's message. The unspoken subtext was "this was dangerous and expensive, and could have been resolved with much less resource use if we'd had location information."

 

Now before everyone goes off da reservation, I'm not suggesting that folks don't call for help when it's needed. If yeh think yeh need help, then call.

 

I'm just suggesting that if your boys really know how to camp and know what to do when lost, and if your lads are properly equipped, and if the rest of your troop has some procedures for handling meet-ups when yeh get separated, then perhaps we don't have to be in the papers. But if yeh aren't goin' to teach your boys all that, well, then, give 'em a darned phone or locator beacon so that at least we aren't imposing on the rest of the public any more than the average clueless tourist when we wander astray.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

It is easy to get mixed up and separated on a river. Happened to me on the Peace River which, as the name suggests, is peaceful. So I think the boys did pretty good.

 

I am frustrated about the cell phone apron strings. I get snarled by them too. Mrs Turtle wants to be able to reach me in case of emergency (which only seems to happen when I am away). Of course my cheap cellphone coverage is pretty scanty on some campouts (we do want to have adventures away from civilization) and I catch heck when I come home and she could not reach me or my batteries are dead from trying to get a signal.

 

Mrs Turtle can become a Snapping Turtle when she gets her back up. I guess it must be love...

 

Today everyone starts to panic if we cannot be in instant and constant communication. How did we ever survive before?

 

We really crack down at summer camp especially with the newbies. Only the SM has a cell phone for parents to contact. (and he was averaging 70+ messages a day last year) We deal with newbie parents by having a ASM do a daily text or email update to everyone--heavy on the "everyone is OK" and low on any problems.

 

As to this kind of river incident is where a sealed cell phone in a dry bag for emergency communication would be OK. Then the separated parties could have communicated a common rendezvous the next day. No need for a rescue effort.

 

We have become a nation of wimps.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Sealed cell phones reminds me of something from the UK. Their Duke of Edinburgh program requires youth to complete a week long trek without adults present ( wish the BSA would allow us to do that but I digress). The youth are allowed to take a cell phone with them HOWEVER is it sealed in a waterproof container in such a way that the seal gets broken if they attempt to us it, and thus fail in that requirement for the award.

[CalicoPenn]

Let's not forget that as we've become a nation looking for instant gratitude, we've also become a nation expecting everything to work perfectly every time. However, that's just not how things work in the world, especially in the rural areas, and despite the proximity of Rockford and Beloit, this area is mostly rural farmland.

 

Assumptions are being made by the Sheriff's office that don't take into account the real world. We seem to forget that a cell phone is more than just a physical piece of equipment. Much depends on the carrier we're using. One of the assumptions the Sheriff is making is that the lads would have had a cell phone using a carrier that would have strong service in that area - but it's just as likely that the lads would have a cell phone with strong service in Mendota but very weak service where they were - just because of the differences in carriers. It's not that unusual away from urban areas to have someone who contracts with Company A showing strong bars on their cell phone while standing next to someone who contracts with Company B that has low or no bars on their phone.

 

Now before someone jumps all over me, I'm not saying don't bring a cell phone - it should be part of a modern survival kit - I'm just saying, don't rely on it as if it's the single and best solution.

[Basementdweller]

Don't care about the cellphone or whether they had one or not....

 

The way I see it they did the right thing. They got off the river built a fire and stayed put after dark. I would hope they would have gotten back in the canoes and continued on at first light.

 

 

Far as the Helicopter rescue and such.....In our legal society the emergency responders are required to figure worse case. What if one of the boys had a medical condition, what if they had capsized and were all wet, what if............

 

We can play the what if game all day. . I would have liked the scouts to turn down the ride in the helicopter to come paddling out in the morning.....But we don't train our scouts to think independantly, they are to respect and follow authority.

 

I can hear the conversation now "Base, Helicopter, ahhhhhh, the boys are refusing to get in the craft, they said they are ok and will finish their trip. Requesting instructions".

[Twocubdad]

And the adult leader(s!) are in the same boat as the emergency response folks. How many of us would be willing to make the non-call? Too many unknowns, especially on the river. Calico is already questioning the delay in calling for help. Not that he's wrong -- having scouts unaccounted for on a river for 10 hours and waiting until 11pm to call is highly questionable. (And I understand we haven't heard precisely what time the 911 call was made. 11pm was when the mutual aid call went out.)

 

Of course the biggest problem here is the single leader. We do canoe treks every year with the troop broken up into patrols (or sometimes ad hoc river crews, if needed). We're organized like a Philmont trail crew with two adult accompanying each crew. We try to spread out so the boys have some open river to themselves. The senior guys always take the point with at least one adult canoe with them and with someone familiar with the river responsible for navigation. If there are turns in the river where there is potential for getting off course, we pre-designate those as rest stops. The lead crew is to stop until the second patrol/crew has them in sight, then the lead group is free to go ahead. But the reality here is the rivers aren't too complicated and don't have side channels you may confuse. The only problem we ever encountered is over shooting the final destination. If we were on a complex river network we would probably change our strategy so the middle groups don't have a chance of taking a side channel without the knowledge of those ahead and behind them.

 

And always, always always the adult responsible for the trip is at the tail end of the line and never lets anyone fall behind.

[RememberSchiff]

A hike on a winding trail might have helped this troop prepare as I have found a group that does not hike well will do worse on a river trip. Hmm, no older scout or adult leader sweep, not staying within sight and sound of the group (rabbits and the turtles), unknown whether each scout had a map and compass and WHISTLE, getting lost...STOP calm, staying together for night, building a fire, ...

 

A good learning experience in mild weather for these scouts who were also fortunate to avoid injury and likely had no daily medication issues. I wonder what the main group of scouts learned from this trip? As for the adult leader(s), their "learning experience" continued with the sheriff and parents.

 

Discussing a trip incident like this one IMO is a better adult learning experience than watching a cartoon character (Tonka Joe?) build a sandwich.

 

My $0.01 for rambling

[Beavah]

Discussing a trip incident like this one IMO is a better adult learning experience than watching a cartoon character (Tonka Joe?) build a sandwich.

 

Yah, Amen to that. Havin' watched that idiotic cartoon now more times than I care to count, I've been wonderin' about whether I could print up big posters of the fellow for use at the camp rifle range. Or maybe put miniature versions of his face on sporting clays.

 

Is it against da rules to use representations of cartoon humans as targets?

 

Beavah

 

[Frank17]

"The investigation shows the boys, ages 12-13 from the Mendota, Illinois area, were canoeing with their boy scout troop, which included approximately 14 other scouts and a scout leader."

 

What happened to "1. Qualified Supervision" under Safety Afloat, where a MINIMUM of 2 adults are required, as well as one supervisor per 10 people?(This message has been edited by frank17)