Age for Northern Tier

[bshealy]

Northern Tier says scouts have to be 13 "by the year they participate." If they plan to participate in 2013, does that mean they have to turn 13 before 2013 or during 2013?

 

Thanks!

[resqman]

Keep in mind that each boy will have to carry an 85 lb canoe for 50-100 yards up and over a hill without any assistance multiple times a day, will have to carry a 75-85lb pack for 50-100 yards without assistance up and over a hill multiple times a day, and will have to paddle basically 8 hours a day in combination with carrying either a pack or canoe every day for a week.

 

The age thing is really just a guideline with the hopes the scouts will have enough physical growth to manage the strenous work of the trek along with enough outdoors experience and maturity to be away from Mom & Dad for a week and still be able to hold up mentally and physically.

 

We have 13 yr old scouts who could handle this with no problem. We have 14 yr old scouts who have a hard time going away for a weekend on flop and drop campouts.

 

I know your question was more about the techincal answer regarding age but keep in mind that there is a physical and mental aspect to high adventure. Some scouts would be better served by waiting a year.

[Basementdweller]

NORTHERN TIER PARTICIPANT AGE REQUIREMENTS:

A participant on a wilderness canoe trek or a Lone Voyaguer program must be a registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer. Youth participants must have attained the age of 13 by the year that they attend. THESE ARE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS!

Please remember that high adventure programs are designed for older youth members as an incentive to keep them in Scouting. Northern Tier programs are challenging and rigorous. Use good judgement in choosing your crew members.

 

 

Seems to me that it means as of January 1 2013 then need to be at least 13 years old.......

 

 

 

On a couple of troop sites I found when I googled the question they say 13 by departure for the trip.

 

 

But in my opinion if that is what they wanted then the wording would have been.

 

"Youth participants must have attained the age of 13 prior to their expedition."

 

But that isn't how it is worded.

 

I like where they call it high adventure for older scout which a 12 year old is either a single summer or second summer scout.

[bshealy]

Thanks! I fully understand the physical and maturity challenge, resqman! I hope to make that clear to those who hope to go with us and find training treks to prepare. Basementdweller, you are thinking what I am thinking.

 

I called NT and the person I spoke to was confused by the wording as well and was having someone else return my call.

 

My issue is a parent who wants his scout to go to NT next year who turns 13 next January. If the requirement is 13 before 2013, he is going to ask if there is any leeway for someone who just missed the deadline (btw, the parent has been to NT with an older son). If the requirement is 13 during 2013, then I am going to have a bunch of 12-year-olds wanting to go and I am going to have to work to help scouts and parents understand what resqman is saying.

 

I will post what I hear back from NT.

[Eagle92]

it use to be that the HA bases, you had to be 13 by Jan.1 of the year you were attending.

[ScoutOne]

The requirement is "13 years of age by December 31st of the year they are attending."

 

I've also asked about the age requirement as I was confused. The clarification I received reflected the more specific description (above) that is printed on Page 2 of Northern Tier's Expedition & Route Planning book.

 

http://www.ntier.org/filestore/NorthernTier/pdf/ERPG.pdf

[eagle90]

There is no leeway. If you miss the date, too bad, so sad. I know during Florida Sea Base check in, the scouts must provide State ID's, and birthdays are checked.

[Basementdweller]

so you can be 12 and attend if you must be 13 by December 31st of the year you are attending.

 

My sons birth day is October....say he is currently 12 he definitely will be 13 by december 31. But he will be 12 the summer of his trek...

[ScoutOne]

Basementdweller, that is correct.

[eagle90]

That may be the Base's regulations, but troops can certainly make their own restrictions. We normally restrict High Adventure opportunities to High School aged scouts.

 

1. This gives them an incentive to stay in Scouting longer

 

2. It keeps the age range shorter, so you don't have 17 year olds having to spend a lot of time with 12 year olds(Not cool in their eyes!)

 

3. In 40+ years, I can think of only one or 2 twelve year olds that could handle most High Adventure activities.

 

Let the younger scouts attend summer camp, put in their time, pay their dues, and then attend High Adventure when they will get a lot more out of it and not struggle as much.

 

Dale

[bshealy]

I got my answer and as a couple of you mentioned it is 13 by December 31 the year you go. So 12-year-olds are eligible.

 

So the next question is how to explain what is involved so that 12-year-olds and their dads understand why you think they should wait in most cases?

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

"So the next question is how to explain what is involved so that 12-year-olds and their dads understand why you think they should wait in most cases?"

 

Take them down to your council camp and have them hike for a mile with one of those canoes over their head. Then explain to them that they will have to add 6-12" mud to the difficulty. You can also load a pack with 60-70 lbs and have them do the same. In some ways NT is more difficult than Philmont. Your not dealing with the altitude, but you are carrying heavier weights for a shorter distance. You need a lot more core body strength which most 12 year olds don't have.

[Basementdweller]

I like the canoe and pack idea......that will help them make up their own mind.

 

Have a semi private time setup......set up a mile course, it could be 4 laps around the track at the local high school.....have a canoe and a 70lb pack available. have the boy start carrying it. I bet that would end most 12 year old aspirations......Make sure dad is not cheering him on. They will not be cheering him on if he cannot manage his share of the work haul gear.

 

 

No always works.....If you in charge of crew going you are within your rights to say no.

[eagle90]

Just set an age limit and stick to it! Don't let pushy parents with expanded views of their kid's physical ability influence you. It's your job as trip leader to insure safety, not to mention crew morale. One sniveling 12 year old who can't pull his weight will bring down the whole crew and be a safety factor as well. I wouldn't even give them an opportunity to test themselves on a track. The conditions in BWCA is much more intense.

[ScoutOne]

I've had crews for many years consisting of all ages of Scouts that have gone into the BWCA and Quetico very safely without any issues. High Adventure is great for all scouts, younger or older. What I have found with younger scouts it that their high adventure experience motivates them to stay in scouting longer than their peers who have not.

 

Your crew will need to adapt based on the abilities of everyone in the crew. Also, it is often not the younger scout the crew will have to adapt for. This may mean someone taking a lighter pack (not all the packs weight 85 pounds, the food pack does) or taking a pack instead of canoe if they do not have good balance. If you have a physically weaker crew you will want to choose a route that is not as strenuous -- shorter and less portages. It is both a learning opportunity about the ability of the crew and an opportunity for people to step up to help others.

 

As for 'setting an age requirement', Northern Tier has already set the requirements to participate. They have done a good job at this for the last 90 years. Its time to stop adding more requirements that meet what you prefer. I have no concerns with those who take the initiative to sign-up first that both meet Northern Tiers requirements and understand what the trip involves.