When is enough enough

[Basementdweller]

I would think that all 5 of the knife throwers would have been ban.....

 

 

Sounds like a reasonable conclusion....

 

thanks for sharing.

[shortridge]

One side benefit of the PLC adopting gear shakedowns before trek departures, if time and space allow: The PLs can easily see that five Scouts have 20 pocketknives between them, raise their collective eyebrows and call a halt to the shenanigans.

[Eagle732]

Sounds like a reasonable conclusion.

[Jay K]

Down with cabin camping.

[Oak Tree]

Thanks for sharing, trainerlady. Good lessons all around.

[eisely]

It sounds like the adult leadership finally stepped up. The outcome is reasonable, although I would be harder on the knife throwing.

 

Several years ago at summer camp one of our new scouts threw a knife and hit a boy from another troop in the eye. Camp leadership immediately sent him home, and he was later terminated from troop membership. This boy was also a boy who needed scouting and would have benefited from it, but the safety of the larger group is the dominant consideration.(This message has been edited by eisely)

[dennis99ss]

Did i see where this kid bullied someone at summer camp. Sounds like a long term problem. But, moving first to the adult problem. Leadership is afraid to act it sounds like. I must say, this kid would not be camping with my troop, and likely i would recommend he be dismissed from the troop. Life is to short to be sued by a parent because of a juvie in the troop.

 

throwing knives. I would immediately think of what else is going to do, and who is he going to throw them at.

 

duct tape.--BYE BYE. and where were the leaders. they are as much at fault.

 

walking on thin ice. We don't have that here, but even so, I even know you dont do that and I dont care how deep it may may be. -- He is gone.

 

popping a kid--some counseling, but it never should have gotten to that pint.

 

lemonade down the back-- counseling, but, with things stacking up -- bye bye

 

lemonade in the face -- bye bye--shows something seriously wrong after everything else.

 

But, i need to gio back to the leaders. They failed in their duties to protect the boys. they are the ones who should be suspended as well

[Basementdweller]

So dennis....

 

bye bye.....does the merely mean sent home or ejected from troop

 

there were 5 boys throwing knives according one of the follow up posts by the OP.

 

Do all 5 get sent home or ejected from troop????

 

 

 

 

[dennis99ss]

unclear and got called on it. sorry bout that.

 

bye bye--leave the camp. BYE BYE - leave the troop.

 

and, if asked to leave the camp, there would have to be some intervention and proof on the scout's part that the conduct would not happen again in ordeer for him to continue to participate in any similar outings.

 

maybe a little more clear. throwing knives--they all leave the camp.

lemonade down the back -- without any other incident, counseling at the camp. with other issues, then that could be leave the camp.

throwing lemonade in the face I think is more of a personal attack and is probably asked to leave the camp, but of course, this could depend on circumstances.

 

duct tape to the bed. leave the camp and likely leave the troop--especially since there was apparently bullying at a previous summer camp.

 

of all, i think the knive throw and the duct tape are serious violations of bsa rules and not taking swift strong action is a failure of the responsibility we have as leaders. while i would want to try to have the troop help the child, my responsibility lies with the safety of the the entire troop and in following the rules. If i follow the rules and enforce them, i likely have some protection or backing from bsa or at least bsa will not have the tools to come after me and try to shift blame as much. if i don't follow the rules or enforce them, i am hanging alone in the lawsuit to follow.

[JoeBob]

Isn't this an example of 'Boy-led' gone bad?

 

Trainerlady: "IMHO 17 is a kid that could have benefited from scouting if the adult leadership had gotten their heads out of their collective butts before we arrived. But things seemed to have gone for a long time without being corrected and now we have a 17 year handful that likes picking on 10.5 to 12 kids. This isn't a good thing."

 

17 is a natural leader. Look how many boys he convinced to follow him. Even onto thin ice! 17's leadership overcame any effort at control the current SPL was able to put forward. Alpha leaders in a pack don't step down because of a pre-determined election cycle. He's just leading others in the wrong direction. Probably for his own amusement.

 

Your adults have allowed 17 to stay in the troop?

Trainerlady: "17 and his fellow duct taper will be banished from camping and outings for 4 months, not allowed to run in troop elections and will not be passed on Scout Spirit for at least 4 months."

 

So he's got to do something more spectacular? I wonder what that will be...

 

Your adult leaders think that this boy cares about making Eagle? I don't think they understand his motivation.

 

I'm not opposed to boy led troops. Don't take it there.

 

But I do think that the mantra, "The boys are in control" has been taken too far. Adults are using 'boy-led' to hide behind.

 

Maybe the Adult BSA Scouters' Motto should be "Until it bleeds, no adult leads."

[Jay K]

Actually, "Until it bleeds, no adult leads," sounds pretty good to me.

[TWOMORROWS]

"I have even gone as far a telling him to be glad I can't sit on his Eagle BOR, because I'd fail him over his lack of Scout Spirit and for not living Scout Oath and Law. "

 

Trainerlady I don't know about your training, but I am pretty sure that if parents are saying these sort of things to scouts I would think that this troop has some serious problems.

[JoeBob]

JayK: Since no one bled in this scenario, you think adult intervention is not appropriate?

 

Really?

[CCbytrickery]

This story doesn't have to do with camping, or even Boy Scouts for that matter (since the boys involved are Cubs) but I think that it lends itself to my thought process.

 

We have a young Wolf in my husband's den, who is on medication for ADD. Gets very--rambuctious--if his meds wear off or if he forgets to take them. He likes to bully the other scouts--and his little sister gets bullied as well. Dad and mom are divorced, split time (each has the kids 3 or 4 days a week), but dad is pretty useless--no discipline ever, and mom is busy partying it up.

 

My husband finally had enough of the boy's behavior, and sat him down during a campout (after being rude and disrespectful to his mother and DH and some bullying behavior to the other Wolf scouts) and told him that his behavior was going to change. There was no excuse for his bullying his sister or other kids, and certainly no excuse for his rudeness to mom. The boy gave the "but I have a problem" whine--and DH said yeah--your problem is you are a bully and rude. Flat out told the kid that either he stopped the bullying and the attitude with mom, or that during meetings, he would sit and watch (not participate) until such time he could show a positive scout attitude. He also let me know he knew that the scout could--and would--do better, and all left the meeting feeling like something was accomplished.

 

So far, 2 months later, the boy is improving---not there yet, but he's trying. His sister takes great delight in telling DH (she comes to most meetings) when the scout is misbehaving at home--but that he's being "much nicer" to her and "sharing more" (this week's report). DH is constantly watching him, and as soon as he shows the bullying behavior, he's pulled aside and reminded about playing fair. It's happening less and less during meetings, and I think that's awesome.

 

I think that somewhere along the way, someone in that other troop missed seeing what was really going on--and 17 is now past the point of simple intervention. Those adults need to be "called on the carpet" for not noticing. There are adult leaders for a reason--kids make stupid choices all the time, and need to be guided in the right direction. Kids need to have a safe person to talk to--to report these kinds of incidents to, and it sounds like they might have been missing that for awhile.

 

Would I send my scout off to camp without 17? Absolutely. I would have a very long talk with my son, before he goes, about the necessity to report any bullying behavior immediately, and that if the adults involved don't take it seriously, to call home--or the police if it is extreme. But I would first have another chat with the troop leaders--and tell them that they had best be on top of this boy, because the first sign of bullying, I'd haul my butt out there with the sheriff on my heels.

 

Would I send my scout off to camp with 17, when he returns? Possibly. I might force a meeting with 17's parents, before it happens.

 

Camp pranks are ok. At our last campout, there was a bed w/belongings place on the porch of the cabin (adult mom), tp'd anothers bunk; that tp ended up wrapping up my clothing in my bag; another mom got pine cones in her sleeping bag--and the very realistic looking fake cockroaches that ended up under some leaders plates during meals--all in good fun. Taping others, and tying them to the bed--not pranks.

 

 

 

[Jay K]

Joe Bob, "Adult intervention" and "Adult led," are, in my pea-brain, different things. I sometimes spend a long time speaking "Friendly, Curteous, Kind" into situations, but I don't "lead" until a real crisis erupts. Then, I go Drill Instructor. (I'm a Aquatics Director; I can bellow pretty good.)

 

In my opinon, the Adults should have intervened.

 

"Bleeds" is, to me, an obvious metaphor. The cute little phrase is a nice mnemonic, but no, I wouldn't wait literally for the blood to flow.