Buffalo Skipper Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Very soon, I will be doing a presentation to our new parents on an upcoming backpack trek for the troop. I will be focusing on an inexpensive lightweight approach. My goals are for backpack and sleeping bags to be at or under 3 lbs each. There are constant changing sales and items available. Can any of you offer some suggestions on what you have most recently found on the internet which meets this criteria, but is fairly inexpensive? For example, GoLite has some of its ultralight backpacks on sale, but only the Woman's Pinacle and Quest are available in a size appropriate for young scouts (15.5"+ torso length). Any ideas I can add to the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 New scouts are typically 12 just before their growth spirt.....which is a problem New scouts.....Here is my recomendation, 3 lbs 10ounce for a $39 pack. Not to bad. http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___90387 We have a number of them and they do nicely for the new boys...... Sleeping bags need to fit right to keep the boy warm too. Campmor has a number that might work at a reasonable price.....but encourage them for fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have the larger adult size of this one and have been reasonably pleased with it. Do not like the pack but the frame is pretty good. I have not carried more than 40 pounds --typically 25-30 including food and water. The pack itself weighs over 5 pounds so I do not know how "lightweight" it is. I would consider making a Sgt Rock rucksack of laundrybag, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would consider a 15" torso length of the Dragonfly larger than some of our scouts, and 58 oz to be heavy, but do-able. What I have found that is good is that some GoLite ultralight packs are on clearance. The woman's Pinacle is now on sale for 79.00, or 55% off the regular price. At under 2 lbs and over 3800 ci, this is a great pack. Sizes go down to a torso length of 15.5" That is alot of bang for the buck. Don't think I am opposed to the Dragonfly. I put it on the list. For the price that will be an affordable option for some scout families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The Osprey 48 weighs 3lb-2oz and adjusts 14 - 20 in torso length. $130 at Campmor. It will last their entire time in scouts. I prefer boys buy an internal frame, they tend save wear and tear on the tents as opposed to the externals. Unfortunately good packs and sleeping bags are not cheap. I think you could get both for close to $200 total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wow you do have some little guys....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here is my basic premise. 3 lbs or less each for Backpack and Sleeping Bag. (tents are provided by troop, unless a scout has own backpacking tent) Backpacks: $ 79.00, 31 oz: GoLite Pinacle (woman's) $ 79.00, 45 oz: GoLite Quest (woman's) $ 71.50, 57 oz: Alps Mountaineering Orizaba 3300 $125.00, 17 oz: Gossamer Gear G4 $119.00, 19 oz: Granite Gear Virga $122.50, 18 oz: ULA Equipment CDT $ 39.99, 58 oz: Outdoor Products Dragonfly $ 65.99, 58 oz: Alps Mountaineering Red Rock Sleeping Bags: $ 89.98, 40 oz: Kelty Cosmic 20(550 f down) $ 84.99, 42 oz: Kelty Cimarron 15 $ 49.98, 33 oz: Eureka Silver City 30 $ 79.98, 35 oz: Mountain Hardware Mountain Goat 20 Kids $119.98, 34 oz: Kelty Light Year 20 Recomended pad is the Wally World blue foam special. At $8 and 12 oz (and it can be cut down if desired), this one's a no-brainer. As mentioned, tents are provided by the troop if needed (as they are for every campout). I do not like our tents for backpacking, but they are what the committee decided to purchase. At 7 lbs, they are heavy, but when divided between 2 scouts it is do-able. Our goal is to keep every scout under 20 lbs with most being in the 15-18 pound range (with food and water). Obviously, there is more to the presentation than this, but you get the idea. Any additional thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I like the list, but wonder about new scout parents shelling out a couple of hundred bucks for new gear...... So how do you handle boys that show up with say a 30lb pack???? Poor or inappropriate gear?????? We do a shake down the meeting before the trip.......But we struggle with bad gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's pretty tough just to pick a backpack from a list based on weight. More important is fit and comfort and you can't figure that out without wearing a pack with weight in it for a time. Now for the Scout looking for plop camp luggage it might be ok. If you're planning on doing some real backpacking, 50 milers, Philmont, even weekend hikes you might want to do a little research and trying out packs. We have an REI near us and that's where I recommend our guys to go. They fit the boys and load the packs with weight and let them walk around the store. I use a Granite gear Nimbus Ozone 3lb 6oz which has over 3,000 miles on it. Son uses a ULA Conduit, 2 lbs even. I bought the ULA for me but didn't like the way it carried over 25 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Basementdweller, First, as for spending "hundreds," the choice of the least expensive of these backpacks and sleeping bags would cost about $90.00, and would weigh 5 lbs 11 oz (well below the recomended 3 lbs/item). This presented list only includes the least expensive of the items we "recomend." Bringing down these weights would be easy if the list had $200 backpacks and sleeping bags. Items this expensive are not even discussed. By "new scout parents," these are generally made up of last year's Webelos crop, so the term "new" is relative. Also, our plan, which is presented to parents upon crossover or when a true "new" scout joins, is that we spend our year building our skills and this culminates in utilizing all they have learned (camping, cooking, orienteering, physical fitness, etc) in our Backpack season (December - February). Thus, this comes as no surprise to the parents. As to what we do when they show up with a 30 lb pack? We do shake downs for every "new" scout pack the meeting before the trek. Unnecessary items are removed and taken home, while the backpacks remain at the scout hut. Scouts are given a list of what to bring, and the packing of these missing items is supervised the evening we leave for our trek. One more thing to keep in mind, is that even though we have kept a close eye on scout's backpack weights, and recomended packs based upon cost and size, this is the first year that we have truly presented the material from the perspective of "lightweight backpacking," and is in fact the first time we have included the "weights" in the presentation. Eagle732, You have no idea just how tough it is to pick one of these backpacks, as not a single local outfitter carries a one of these packs. There are 2 local outfitters which carry quality products, but primarily products north of $175 and in excess of 4 or 5 lbs. The other end of the spectrum is Academy Sports or Sports Authority which carries cruddy gear which generally does not fit scouts. The last option is the Scout Shop, but their packs are at the upper end of the cost range we present and exceed the weight expectations. The nearest REI to us is Atlanta, 465 miles away. So the challenge is truly an uphill battle. I do know how to fit gear, and I wish I had better options. FWIW, My son and I both have ULA Circuits (mine is a custom). He and I keep our base weights right around 12-15 lbs, depending upon the season. He and I went to REI the week after Christmas to try out some special gear before heading to Cheaha for a father-son hike. We did 30 miles over 3 days with a total pack weight of 18 and 19 lbs (including food and water). I have had as much as 26 lbs in the Circuit and it still carried well, but my goal is to not exceed 20 lbs; the 26 lbs included a 3 mile trek into a dry camp. For more information on lightweight backpacking, I am truly a follower of Doug Prosser, who in 2009 did Philmont with a base weight (no food and water but including shared patrol gear) of under 9 lbs. Here is a great article on his approach to new scouts: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/boy_scout_gear_list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Our troop worked pretty hard trying to keep cost down and one of the ways we did that was older scouts sold their packs to new scouts when they out grew them. There is typcally one or two packs for sale at a Troop meeting. We also had a few donated packs in the equipment room for anyone to use. I'm glad to see their are more smaller packs out there now, there only a couple 15 years ago. The Jansport Scout is one of my favorites because it can hold up to a lot of abuse and can be easily adjusted as the scouts grew. But it is an external frame and it seems a lot of folks today don't care for external. I personally liked them for new scouts because they didn't have enough experience for packing an internal frame. The external took them from not knowing how to pack for camping at all to learning how to pack within their limits and where to put the items so they weight was comfortable. I can see how the new packs would work better today. I am impressed by the lighter weights you guys are getting. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ok I know the price list is causing me some sticker shock, and I know what to expect Here are somethings 1'd do and you milage will vary. 1)Emphasize how important good gear is and how if taken care of, it will last. If you have personal examples of this, use them. I know I have had the same used backpack for 24 years. Not that light since it is an ALICE with USGI frame, but lighter frames are on the market for it. But they can cost as much or even more than a used ALICE off of ebay. Ditto on a 24yo sleeping bag and 15yo sleeping bags. While the zipper is messed up on the 20yo bag, safety pins help and is used by youngest. Also tell them that they do need to invest a little time researching the packs, and sometimes money does need to be invested. My first pack, a K Mart special, broke on its first major trip, a week long backpacking trip. While I used it a few times prior to the trip, campouts, summer cmap, etc. It lasted 3 days. 2) Talk about resources to get the gear cheap, i.e. other scouts who have outgrown packs, ebay, surplus stores, etc. I'd also talk to some local stores to see if they would give a bulk discount. When I was going to Canada, two packs were recommended for the trip: ALICE packs and a European military pack. You had your choice of ALICEs too, used or brand new. The troop leadership worked out a deal with local surplus store, we met at the store for a meeting after normal store hours, and bought them that night with a very nice discount, I think it was his actual cost + a few dollars for the packs. Saved a lot of money buying my pack. 3) May want to team up the new scouts with older ones who can carry more of the group gear. Not only due to weight considerations, but also if the new scouts show up with cheap packs. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 One soon likes ultralight the other one military surplus. There are some very nice (heavy but durable) ALICE type gear available now--especially European armies that are downsizing. Lots of Swiss, Swedish, and Austrian Gear abound. We have recycled some of those JanSport externals and they seem pretty good. One bad thing of externals is that folks always want to tie one more thing on your handy frame than pack it themselves. Seems like the external frame always end up hauling the garbage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Garbage is a good example of lightweight backpacking faux pas. We have our patrols repack all their possible food items to reduce or eliminate packaging, therefore reducing the amount of weight in and garbage out. Each scout is given a 1 gal ziplock in which everyone carries out their own garbage. It allows every scout to see what waste they generate consequently they have a better appreciation of what they are carrying. It works better than one scout slogging around with the oversize, smelly garbage bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Don't you think an adjustable length pack would be better for growing boys? Most of the lightweight packs that I've looked at don't adjust in torso length very much. REI use to make a pack called Meteor which several of our scouts bought. It was adjustable from 14 to 17 torso inches, weighed 4 lbs, and 3100 cu in capacity. That size will fir the average kid 11 -15 years old. Seems they don't make it any longer. It was in my opinion the perfect pack for new scouts. I'd like to find a few examples to recommend to my new Scouts that: Cost less than $125 Weighs no more than 4 lbs Internal frame 3,000 cu in capacity Adjustable torso length about 14 - 17' Anyone know of any that meets these specs? (This message has been edited by Eagle732) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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