Troop Committees

[MomScouter]

I have been in a troop less than a year as a Committee Member but have been acting as CC since our CC on the charter is also the CO rep and has never to the best of my knowledge attended a committee meeting. This troop was started by the SM, he personally owns much of the equipment the boys use, and the bank account is in his taxid number, not the CO. None of the committee members has ever seen the checkbook; we're lucky to see an occasional fiancial report. He seems to have the position that the committee is there to do as he asks, not make decisions on their own. He insists on keeping people on our charter who we have not seen in a year, I say we need to contact them and if they are not going to participate, lets cross them off.

 

I have asked a DC to assist with some of these issues and set them straight. I was the CC of the pack and we all worked together with the Cubmaster, there were none of these power issues. I just want the committee to be able to do its job as outlined in the Troop Committee Guide.

 

My son likes most of the boys and is comfortable with the troop. We have talked about changing troops, one day he is ready to leave, another he wants to stay (he's 11). I am willing to work out the problems we have but my patience with the SM is running out. A number of boys and parents have left the troop because of his attitude that he has to be in control. I believe that if my son and I left there would be 3 others that followed, and that's about half of the (active) troop!

 

My question is, at what point do I quit trying to improve the adult relationships and move on? I want any troop change to be my son's choice but it is very hard to be an effective CC/C member in the current environment. Several of the other committee members feel the same way.

 

 

[eagle90]

I would contact your Unit Commissioner. It is his job to make sure the unit is functioning as it is supposed to. The dictatorship you are describing is not healthy for either the boys or adults. In extreme cases, I would also contact my District Executive for advise.

[jmcquillan]

My question is, at what point do I quit trying to improve the adult relationships and move on?

 

When running headlong into the brick wall begins to hurt more than you're willing to accept. If I can venture a guess, here,...it sounds like you've already passed that point and are looking for someone to help you reinforce your decision. Well, here's some reinforcement.

 

It's really quite obvious that the SM doesn't have clue about how things should be run within the picture you've painted. It's also fairly obvious that taking him to task, by yourself, as a committee, or with the help of the DE, (if he'll get involved), will result in verbal fisticuffs, with either you or the SM leaving. He shouldn't have such control over the troop for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that he has no ownership, but sees that he does. In this situation, he can pull the rug out from under the troop at any time he decides to walk. Thus, if you and the committee and the DE decide to tackle the problem, rather than move on, be prepared to fill his position, raise funds of your own as a troop, start the appropriate bank account(s), and start searching for new equipment.

 

Other than moving along to another troop devoid of the problems you describe, there's nittle else you can do, for he holds all the marbles, unless the CO will get involved and oust him. Is that likely?

[eisely]

One occasionally runs into people in important positions in volunteer organizations of all kinds who get on power trips. Since scoutmasters do not have fixed terms in office, this is especially hard to deal with. How long has your troop been in business?

 

Why he would keep people on the charter who are not active is beyond me. Many units carry boys for a year in the hopes they will come back, but if this has been going on for some time, one has to wonder why. It could be to pump up his numbers. This also costs YOU money. You did not say how the troop is funded, other to say that the SM controls all the funds. If you are paying you own money, or supporting fund raisers, to carry phantom scouts, that is reason enough for power sharing.

 

The district commissioner staff is supposed to help with these situations. As others suggested, you need to talk to these people if you have not already done so.

 

You need to talk to your COR, and with that person go to the governing body or person in charge of the CO itself. The CO is entitled to know what is being done in its name.

 

The other alternative, as you have mentioned, is to walk. Sometimes that is the only viable alternative.

 

Good luck

[featherswillfly]

The people before me have spoken wise words. Get your Unit Commissioner, District Commissioner, and the Districtrict Executive all involved in that order. Take one step at a time and if there are no results take the next step. I get the feeling the you are going up against a man. Don't get me wrong BUT some of the gentlemen in this great organization are from the good old boys club and having a woman on board put them on the defensive. This does not pertain to all men. But I have come across this problem as well. I have been a committee chair for 6 years. This happened to me and it was not pleasant. Unfortunatly the unit commissioner was from the same club. I ended up being able to overcome this person because I was lucky enough to have a great committee for back up. This person and his wife and two challenging sons(one of which we actually had to suspend from the troop) left and started their own troop. YEAH!!!! So if you can stand the pressure and you see it's worth working for, keep trying, people such as yourself are the future of scouting. Sometimes other people will draw strength from you. Good Luck

[MomScouter]

Thanks for all the advice! I have involved the District Commissioner and he has has visited a committee meeting and tried to clear up a few things. The COR is uninvolved - but I am trying to make him aware of what is going on. I think I am doing the right thing for this troop, trying to play by BSA rulebook while at the same time being patient, hoping for the best. But another parent summed it up pretty good when she said everything is fine as long as you agree with him (the SM) but if you don't, look out.

 

I can move on to another troop nearby that does not have these problems. I have talked to my son about this but want it to be his decision. I have observed a lot of packs and troops in this area and one thing that seems to make the difference between the great units and the ones with problems is the degree of politics between the adults. This is so unfortunate because the boys pay the price. There is a nearby troop that has a SM that has a 'rule' of no women allowed on campouts! Outrageous! Even more upsetting is that some of the adults go along with this, although a number have gone elsewhere with their boys.

[evmori]

Training, training, training. It sounds like none of the adult leadership in this Troop have attended any type of training. Training is important. That's were we adults learn the ins & outs.

 

"Even more upsetting is that some of the adults

go along with this, although a number have gone elsewhere with their boys."

 

This should send up red flags.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[MomScouter]

Actually, the Sm in our troop has been through training up to Wood Badge, the ASM and CC have had BSLT and Committee training! The one mentioned from the nearby town that does 'not allow' women on campouts has been a leader for over 15 years and has had training. He just thinks he can make his own rules.

[562-outdoors]

It sounds to me that you and the rest of the committee members that feel the same way you do have together and ask the SM to step down. The committee should have a treasure and other postitions for the adults. The SM main job is to inform the Committee of what the boys want to do not run the Committee. I really think that The COR and CC with the Committee's approve ask the SM to step down

[eisely]

The fact that your commissioner even came to your committee meeting is a helpful sign. That means you are getting some backup at a different level. These are extremely difficult issues to deal with. It has been my observation that some people make larger emotional investments in volunteer activities than they do in their careers, or even their marriages. I too have observed the antagonism towards female volunteers in scouting. Fortunately I have seen very little of it here.

 

Most scoutmasters are crying out for more volunteer help. The lack of sharing by your SM of positions and authority does indicate a power trip. Asking the SM to step down is an extreme step, but may become unavoidable.

[FScouter]

MomScouter -- Do you about an update? Has your commissioner and committee made any headway regarding your Scoutmaster issue?

[Bob White]

Let's look at what we have here.

* A fully trained leader gone awry.

 

It is improper for the SM to use his personal tax ID unless he is a non -profit organization. I would bet he is using a resale tax exempt # from a business. Also improper. there are two tax #s that can be used. The BSA has a tax # that you can use for non personal items. You can also use your Charter organizations # if they have on.

 

It is very improper to have sole control of the checkbook.Chapter 6, page 23 of the Troop Committee Guide, The first paragraph reads, "The recording, disbursing and budgeting of troop funds, along with unit money erning project assistance , is the responsibility of the troop committee and the treasurer. The next paragraph begins, "Every troop should have a checking account at a local bank. An account that requires Two signatures on each check, those of the committee treasurer and Scoutmaster is recommended".

Later in the same paragraph. "Disbursements from the checking account are made on the recommendation of the scoutmaster with authorization from the Troop Committee.

 

But on to the bigger issue. When it comes to the Adult volunteer hierarchy in a unit, the SM is not top dog. Second maybe? Nope! Third? Nope! Fourth? That is correct, Vanna show them what they've won.

 

I know alot of people won't like to read this and you can argue it all you want but it won't change a thing.

 

The top of the totem pole is the Executive Officer of the Charter Organization. Remember the unit is "owned" by the charter org. The second in control is the Charter Organization Representative. Do you recall who signs every adult application in your unit, the COR. He or she is reponsible for the selection and approval of every adult. Third is the Committee Chairperson. If your unit was set up correctly the CC was selected by the Executive officer and the Charter Rep. If that isn't the case here...it doesn't matter, the CC is third in authority.

 

Fourth we have the Scoutmaster. The program coordinator whose tenure is renewed on an annual basis in a cooperative decision between the SM, the CC and the COR. If the COR wants to keep the SM and the SM wants to stay then we have a mutually beneficial arrangement. But make no mistake the COR can say at any time "thanks but we have decided on a change of leadership" and then the party is over. So to put it bluntly the SM serves at the will of the COR.

 

The SM has zero authority when it comes to another volunteer's tenure.

 

This post haas gotten long I apologize. If you would like a recommendation(that doesn't begin with "off with his head") just ask and I will reply.

 

Bob

[ozemu]

Momscouter.....WALK. Get going and leave the SM to play his games. You seem to have two options.

 

1. Deal with the matter (stress) and end up with a small Troop, an uninterested Charter Org, no SM, no gear, no money etc and a long (years) struggle to get things right - which you may lose.

 

2. Walk.. straight to a good Troop who will welcome your son and yourself, provide gear, provide leadership, friendship, has reasonable financials etc. And your son will have up to 3 old friends from the existing Troop with him....and the old Troop will fold or go to 1 above and may, after a long struggle, be as good as the new Troop.

 

This game is supposed to be fun. The battle you are considering will NOT BE FUN. I have seen a few such problems in and out of Scouts (who hasn't) and the winner rarely feels good about the result. I doubt that you volunteered for the task you are considering . It was forced upon you. The SM has set in train a course with one natural conclusion. Let him wear it.

[Rooster7]

Bob,

 

I understand the structure as you described itwith the chartering organization's executive officer being at the top, who appoints the COR. I realize that the COR is above the CC and SM. However, I am a little confused about the CC and SM relationship. Can you show me where in BSA literature it states that the CC has authority over the SM? I always viewed them as equals. They are responsible for different areas of the program. One oversees administrative and financial support functions of the troop, while the other oversees the boys' program. I'm not sure why either one would be telling the other what to do? Regardless, could you reference the text in which you base your claim that the CC has authority over the SM? Thanks.

 

[Bob White]

The CC authority comes from the Troop Committee guide in which the CC is selected by the Charter Executive and the COR, and whose responsibilities include the securing of trained individuals for camp leadership.

 

In Troop operation I agree with you it is a partnership, but the CC is a senior partner in that they represent the owner/administration of the troop and the SM is the program coordinator.

 

The CC helps in the selection and securing of the SM, not visa versa. The SM sits on the troop Committee as the program representative. The head of the troop committee is the CC.

 

In no part of scouting does the SM have authority over the functions of the committee.

 

The Committee has the authority to select and secure adults, The SM does not.

The Committee has the authority to disburse funds, The SM does not.

The Committee can overrule the SM on advancement, The SM cannot overule the committee.

The Charter is held by the Charter Org, not the SM.

 

Look at it as a church's youth choir, there is really no difference.

The chior is a youth outreach function of the church just like the troop.

Who has the most authority authority. The pastor of the Church? The Church Board who selected and hired the choir director. The choir director.

 

The choir director and the SM serve at the will of the controlling committee. They are there to serve the youth. They maintain value to the organization only by meeting the needs of the organization. A choir director that only sings what he wants, when he wants, in the way he wants will soon be replaced.