How did they EVER survive?

[BadenP]

 

My favorite trek at Philmont was the pack horse trek where the animals carried most of the equipment and we were free to take in all the beautiful scenery and wildlife.

 

IMO, Philmont is almost like visiting an alien world, it is truly a transformattional experience.

[Eagle92]

First framed backpack I had was in 1988, and it had no hip belt. It was either the BSA handbook at the time, or the old 3rd ed. Field book that I got hte idea of using an oversized belt, and making a hipbelt.

[le Voyageur]

 

 

We didn't consider it survival....it was the way it was down during those times...my first trek across the Canyon was with a BSA Yucca pack, and wearing KEDS. Used a lot of military surplus gear which we often modified to fit our needs...great fun, wouldn't change a thing...

[CalicoPenn]

It's time to break the 70 year old secrets:

 

All that ditching that Scouts did around their tents? It was to hide the extension cords running to the nearest power pole.

 

Helicopter moms had better camoflage - even their hair dryers were camoflaged - that whirring noise Scouts heard in the woods that were attributed to owls? Mom's hair dryer at full speed.

 

Trees were actually pre-cut down then superglued back together - made it easy for a tree to be felled, limbed, sectioned and quartered by a 12 year old boy.

 

The only troop with heavy gear was yours - every one else had space age, lightweight equipment - it was just made out to look as heavy as yours.

 

National Park and Forest trails of the time were moving walkways - they were removed in the 70's and never replaced because it was getting too hard to find repair parts.

 

Irradiating food is not a new idea - food was heavily irradiated way back when which kept bacteria at bay no matter how long the mayonnaise stayed out in the sun.

 

All that gear Scouts hauled up a trail was just misdirection - waiting for them at the end of a trail was a 5-star resort with indoor/outdoor swimming pool, 5-star chef, pool table lounge, and all the cookies on could eat.e

 

Or was that just the 1950's B-movie Science Fiction film I saw last week that I'm remembering.

[BadenP]

 

We survived because no one was telling us it couldn't be done. Unlike today our packs were not loaded with a myriad of electronic devices, unnecessary equipment, and medical supplies that would rival a hospital emergency room. We did not go on a trek being told about all the things to look out for, rather all the things we were going to see and do, and all the fun we were going to have.

[Stosh]

I don't know when the idea of a troop trailer came in, but car trunks and pickup beds were all we ever mustered. And yes, we rode with the equipment in the back of the pickup.

 

Tents? Each patrol had their own wall tent. NSP had explorer tents.

 

We all carried mess kits we actually cooked in.

 

Capture the flag was the #2 camporee activity. Camp raids were #1.

 

Latrines were all open trenches because there weren't any women around.

 

Quiet time at night didn't stop any conversations in that flashlights had signal buttons on them and we all knew Morse Code.

 

Bug screens and tent floors weren't invented yet. It was a treat to get army surplus cots at summer camp.

 

Everyone wore full scout uniforms... in school on the days of the troop/pack meeting. Even if the meeting didn't start until 7:00 pm.

 

It isn't an issue of how did they EVER survive, the more interesting question could any scout today survive under those circumstances?

 

 

Stosh

 

 

 

 

[desertrat77]

My hat is off to the wooden pack frame guys--I salute you.

 

BadenP, you raise good points. The focus was on adventure. Only take the gear that was necessary and make sure it was durable and functional. There was less hand wringing overall.

[Engineer61]

As far as I know, none of the "original Scouts" have survived.

 

Sorry...I just couldn't help it...

[BadenP]

Eng61

 

The really sad part is that the legacy and spirit those guys left behind has been lost forever by those desk jockeys at National. A sad reflection of the current times and scouting program.

[Stosh]

Unfortunately a true story...

 

Since leaving the ranks of scouting as a SM, I now get out more often, do more camping and enjoy myself more than I have in the past 30 years.

 

1 week at Yellowstone/Black Hills. Saw more, camped more, covered more territory than prior trips with the scouts. Spent more time photographing wildlife and identifying alpine flowers than ever before. Saw every tourist point offered except for the area closed off because of a grizzly attack just 5 minutes prior to my arrival.

 

1 week at Virginia. Saw twice as many historical sites that could have been arranged by the scouts. Participated in a reenactment that most scouts would have difficulty enduring - temps up to 110 degrees for most of the week.

 

I have gotten in kayak/canoe treks just about ever weekend I'm not camping or reenacting. Hiked about as many miles as when I was preparing for the Philmont trek back in 2000.

 

Next year is Alaska for 2 weeks.

 

I have found that despite 30 years with scouting as ASM, SM, and Advisor, I am now no longer held back by the program.

 

It'll be a shame to think that as UC I get more outing than the boys.

 

Stosh

[Engineer61]

Hi BP,

 

The fact is, BSA, like everything is in a different time, different place, different world.

 

And no matter what we might want ... we can't go back.

 

It's depressing to some to have to accept that ... but that's just the deal.

 

I'd much prefer to design chips the way I did when I started out 25 years ago ... a lot more fun and a bigger challenge ... but that's not going to happen.

 

Somewhere along the line, BSA, like everything else got "contaminated" by the Post WWII New World. Faster, more "efficient" and results oriented ... aka, the Eagle quest. Who changed that? I dunno, but I doubt that it *started* at National.

 

Somewhere, somehow, someone decided to make a big deal out of being Eagle. I think it started when Eagles decided to ask if you were an Eagle on job applications, or college applications, or anything for that matter.

 

Like I've mentioned before... when I was a kid, outside of the 4th of July parade I never saw a Scout ... it was totally secret from the mainstream ... not anymore.

[skeptic]

Engineer;

 

When I was a kid, scouts were everywhere; we wore uniforms to school either for special activities or because we were going to scouts after, even in high school. I became completely reinvolved in 1976, and scouting was still fairly prominent. But there was already the negatives from the inner city program and backlash from Viet Nam and any uniformed, civic supporting organization. Saw the disappearance of window displays in stores, partly because of malls, but mostly because of attitude and PC nonsense. Yes, it was already playing its discordance in its own way. Actually, there has always been "some" anti scouting groups; see the attacks by the Communists and so on in the 30's, or the anti-militarism in the teens.

 

Things change, and eventually, with luck, we will adjust. But, just like saying the only way to start a fire is with friction or other "natural way". Even in the infancy of scouts, that "was not" the requirement; it was two matches, because "that" technology was already in use.

 

As pointed out, we can never go back. Yet we can still respect the history, and make current scouts aware of these skills, even while we embrace more modern ones and equipment. If we insist on living in the first half of the 20th century, we really will become lost.

 

JMO

[BadenP]

Eng61

 

I think the point is we in scouting allowed the standards to become less dynamic because of program changes that came down from National. Those of us scoutmasters who continued to enforce the same high standards in our troops are for the most part out of the boy scout program and with the new generation of leaders many have limited to no prior experience in boy scouts, poor outdoor skills, and seem to prefer the classroom run troop program. Skeptic did an excellent job answering your other questions in his post. Yes, times have changed, instead of seeing scouts all over in uniform today they are much fewer in number and most of the time do not wear their uniforms.

 

So I think the question becomes is Scouting still relevant to our youth or does it need to continue to undergo massive transformation as it is now just to survive?

The further scouting gets away from its roots(outdoors) the greater the chance it will continue to lose membership at an alarming rate and diminish into just a small club type of organization.

[Gunny2862]

IWTGBTP...

[BadenP]

 

Boy scouts have survived a century now and if it continues to provide quality leaders who continue to put forward a quality outdoor program it will survive another century, in spite of the efforts of a few in irving who just don't seem to get it.