How did they EVER survive?

[SSScout]

Man, those original Scouts. How did they EVER get by with all that HEAVY, STIFF, UGLY gray green tan stuff? I mean, I've heard of 12 year old Scouts doing the 100 miles at Philmont with Plywood pack frames, canvas tents, aluminum pots and fry pans, and (shudder) no 'squiter netting!

And the uniforms! Wool sweaters, full leather shoes, 100% cotton shirts that HAD to be ironed (ask the mom)? And look at the photos! What were they thinking, wearing that hot, useless bandana thing around the neck?

Makes you wonder how they even lived long enough to have children of their own?

Why didn't they just invent nylon and plastic back then, instead of waiting til later?

 

[pchadbo]

and how did they get anywhere when if they were lucky they had 1 car per family and Dad took that to work. I have even heard tell of Scouts back then who had to walk with their pack to the hikes and campouts.

Then they got there and back again, they had to find information in these things with thin wooden pages that you had to turn and searching meant looking at each of these "pages" to locate what you were looking for.

Oh the humanity!!!

[moosetracker]

Hmmm.. Never thought about Philmont.. When was Philmont founded?

 

I have seen pictures of the heavy uniforms and seen a few in museums.. I knew that they used canvas tents, and wheeled them to their sights in large wagons..

 

I just never thought the backpacking thing took effect until things were invented that allowed the backpacking thing to take effect.. And that the wool uniform was in colder weather, but they had something maybe still uncomfortably, suit-like for summer weather.. Or some ugly knicker shorts..

 

Forget desert hiking.. I still am not someone who sees Philmont as a "fun" place, even with all the neat equipment.. Hiking around in a desert, just doesn't seem all that fun..

[The Blancmange]

>>>> Forget desert hiking.. I still am not someone who sees Philmont as a "fun" place, even with all the neat equipment.. Hiking around in a desert, just doesn't seem all that fun..

[moosetracker]

Absolutly.. Never been there.. Just went on the words of how people described it who were sold on it.. That's what we got, hot.. sandy.. desert like with temperture in the hundreds during the day and frigid cold at night.. Wonderful! Wonderful! Blah.. Blah..

 

Our scouts went to seabase!! I didn't go there either.. But the descriptions sounded more appealing, to both me and the scouts in our troop..

 

Pictures look nice.. Any better version on the temps? Or stories that are more appealing?

[skeptic]

Temps in the hundreds is not common at Philmont. Have been there for two treks and 5 training courses, and "never" saw triple digits. Did see "lots" of rain in 1990; monsoon season, and rained 8 of 10 days on the trail, 3 days without let up almost. Learned what it was like to hike in a sauna.

 

Still would not trade the experiences there for much. It is a spectacular place, and well worth the efforts. Hope to maybe get back before I get so old I cannot walk; but only for training. No more treks for me.

 

Wish I could see a real trip to The Summit in my future; but again, would likely only be a training course at this point in my life. Do not hold much hope for attending in 2013, unless I get my physical being into better shape and find solutions to some chronic issues.

 

Our troop is 90 this year, and we still have some old equipment I use for displays. In the 30's and 40's they build wood frames, then used diamond hitches to tie their gear on the frames; most used blanket roles in a horseshoe over the top. When I was an explorer in the late 50's, I had an old "official" explorer frame from BSA. Do not know what happened to that, but wish I had it for my collection today.

 

Historical research will show that while scouts in the early days definitely walked and hiked more than we do today, in many respects, they also used pack animals and trek carts, or drove to a base camp. We have photos in our archives of the old truck they used in our first couple of decades. It had special boxes that fit over the wheels on the flat bed, with a third one between the sides against the cab. The doors were on chains that dropped down when the sides of the truck were removed. They would drive to the end of the road in the mountains above our area, and then camp. The boxes had staples and cooking materials. They took rifles and fishing gear to supplement the staples. Personal gear went in the middle, and they climbed in on top. G2SS people would have had a stroke. Even in the 50's we still rode in backs of trucks on top of gear; not that we were particularly smart to do so. It was just the way it was.

 

I have an old book about scouting in the Chicago area in the first decade. It talks about walking to the edge of town and jumping the train to the countryside, then hiking to a spot to camp. Even talks about sending scouts to farm houses to ask for food.

 

We have much for which we should be thankful. In many respects, our loud voices here about how awful the modern program is are just "wrong". Much of what Scouts and Ventures do today would have been considered impossible or simply crazy in the early days. Approaches to adventure change with the times. We either learn to adapt, or we fail to succeed. Not too many of today's scouts or scouters would choose to hike the areas many do using what was available in the first few years.

 

JMHO

[Stosh]

Some of the early novels written about scouting seemed to indicate that summer camp lasted for months, not weeks, and the boys hiked to the rail head, jumped the train, got to the wilderness and then hopped off and hiked into the wilderness to set up camp. Eventually areas were donated and established as camps where the boys during the summer set out to build patrol cabins, etc.

 

I'm not so old as to not remember how nice it was when the scout campsite actually got a wooden outhouse. Showers? Heck no! That's what the lake was for, you know, that body of water everyone used before pools were invented?

 

Do I miss those days? Nope, just this past weekend I camped out under real canvas (pup tent with no ends or floor, cooked on an open fire and sat on a log for most of the weekend, hiked in the beautiful fall colors and totally enjoyed the real outdoors. I was not within 50 miles of any BSA camp. I'm going to have to spend the next two weeks picking burrs and burdock out of my clothes and while reminiscing about all the fun I had.

 

Stosh

[BadenP]

 

Been to Philmont twice myself and found it a very peaceful and tranquil experience. Every scout and scouter should get the opportunity to go at least once in their lives.

[desertrat77]

The Philmont trek is still my best scouting experience. Not because it was easy! It was true adventure. The Philmont arrowhead is one of the coolest patches to earn.

 

How did we survive? Good question. I don't think we knew any better. Hiked Philmont as a teen in combat boots, eight lb sleeping back, etc. Hydration system? Two GI canteens and canteen cup. External frame pack purchased with my lawn mowing money

 

No big deal, particularly when you consider the primitive gear the scouts of yesteryear carried.

 

So when the going gets tough, I have to ask myself "are the scouts and scouters of years past tougher than me?"

 

I'd like to think we're made of the same stuff.

 

I'd hike Philmont again with the same gear. Almost. Gotta ditch that eight lb sleeping bag. Ugh.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[SSScout]

Well, MY Handbook for Boys told me to take two wool blankets and use big safety pins to pin them together to make a sleeping bag!

And use my mom's old shower curtain as a ground cloth under the canvas shelter half that older Scout used at Philmont and then gave me when he went off to college.

And how to get the corrosion out of the brass L head 2D cell BSA flashlight when the batteries boiled over.

And clean the grease out of the frypan with sand and gravel from the creek, then boil water in it to STERILIZE it. Wipe it out with big leaves.

And how my dad helped me dig the nails out of the heel of my boots when they came thru into MY heel.

And Mary Ann Corned Beef for breakfast, cans don't spoil.

[desertrat77]

SSScout, you know, those are still useful skills!

 

Except the corned beef hash. That was tough sledding. The weight and meal itself.

[RememberSchiff]

Our packs were definitely heavier. I weighed 185 at the start, my loaded pack was 70-75 which was also the load limit of Philmont's pack burros. Most in my patrol could carry as much as a pack burro and travel faster, but we welcomed trek segments where burros were available to offload - much easier to setup camp at the end of 10+ mile hike.

 

This was the late sixties. I had saved and invested in the largest BSA pack available and it had something new - an aluminum pack frame and a waist belt. As I recall, all BSA packs before then were knapsacks even the Yucca. All my white t-shirts had black sweat imprints of that frame. My back liked the rigid external frame then, I doubt it would now.

 

My hiking boots were the same basic Sears clod-hoppers (no LLBean, no Vibram soles) I had always wore for scouting. Cotton socks and blisters to prove it. Cotton everything else except for poncho. Tents were heavy even without a floor; sleeping bags bulky. I had Army surplus stainless steel mess kit and canteen with canvas cover (good enough for the Army, good enough for us. I still like stainless steel water containers.). We carried an ax and saw for wood fires, though we did have some Sterno cans. Plastic bags were ok, but plastic containers, bowls, buckets...had a nasty habit of cracking back then.

 

We made do with what we had or could make. Our patrol quartermaster carried a repair kit for tents, clothes, boots. With approval, we went off on our own frequently. The paradox, for me, with the lighter, better gear of today why are today's treks shorter and require more adults?

 

I see less of that attention, resourcefulness, and thrift in the program now. Today it is have yet another fund-raiser, spend, and it must be top-of-the-line, if two adults is safe then three must be safer (We had 1 adult). Better, more expensive equipment but less scout independence.

 

Wish I had my LED flashlight back then, other than that my equipment though heavy was adequate. I weighed 170 at the end. I had a great time, my personal high point in scouting.

 

My $0.01

[Kudu]

When did y'all discover backpack waist-straps?

 

Not until the late 1960s for me. A non-Scouting friend showed me; I don't remember them in the BSA Fieldbook.

 

Waist-straps were to backpacking as stirrups were to calvary.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[desertrat77]

RememberSchiff,

 

I forgot about carrying the axes at Philmont, the years that were pre-stove.

 

Your Sears clod-hoppers: memories! Except my first pair of hiking boots were Kmart waffle boots...about as heavy as something Frankenstein would wear. The next pair, the aforementioned combat boots, were light as a feather it seemed. Broke them in wearing them to school.

 

Now that you mention it, everything was cotton.

 

Kudu: My first pack had a hip belt, a simple web thing with a buckle, no padding. It was a Sear brand, poorly designed, a real back killer. Didn't get much benefit from the hip strap. Second pack, which I took to Philmont, was a wonderful Camptrails with padded hip belt. This was in the mid-'70s.

[Kahuna]

Yep, my first Philmont trek was in 1962. Wooden pack frames, work boots bought from a place that supplied farmers. Carried all that stuff with an old canvas BSA pack strapped to the wooden frame.

 

BTW, Philmont started in the late thirties and expanded during the forties.