Expired Philmont Food

[Papadaddy]

I have a Master's in Public Health and have to agree with Fscouter. Gastrointestinal illness is more often due to poor personal hygiene or food handling technique such as not being held at proper temperature after preparation or cross contamination. THere's also the possibility of a virus, such as cruise ships experience with norovirus. I generally ignore expiration dates, except for milk, eggs and fresh meats, while my wife will throw stuff out the day it "expires". Pharmaceuticals, however are a different story. That being said, for the prices most camps and Philmont charge their customers, I would expect better.

[Oak Tree]

We were recently served milk that had been frozen and was about a month past its expiration date.

 

The milk tasted fine, but it was hard to put it in my mouth after I saw the date on the carton.

[desertrat77]

Papa, I'm tracking with you. If I may add one note from a layman: While expired food is usually okay, if stored at improper temps and conditions, it can go south pretty quick.

 

Two deployments ago, our site's entire back up stockpile of MREs had to be destroyed, because they weren't stored in suitable temps. Routine spot checks had not be done, nothing was documented, and a thorough examination showed the whole stock to be unfit to eat under any conditions. Fortunately we had a new senior master sergeant (with a touch of OCD) who figured this out before the rations were needed.

 

For all of the promotional hoopla about Philmont being a mountain top scouting experience, and the huge of cost of just getting there, that freeze dried food should be the best vittles available.

 

Serving expired food to people sends a signal: "Good enough for who it's for." Philmont is not a soup kitchen, and I'm disappointed management there feels that the trekkers deserve second best.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[FScouter]

"...exemplary adherence to the company line, for always rushing to the defense of every official BSA policy and action..."

 

What policy are you referring to might I ask??? BSA has nothing to do with my comments. I challenge emotionally driven statements and conclusions presented with no evidence.

[desertrat77]

Fscouter,

 

Is Philmont part of the BSA?

 

Are they serving expired food?

 

Are you rushing to Philmont's defense?

 

Did you state that the food was okay, and then accuse the trekkers of being unsanitary?

 

With my only show of emotion resulting in a giant yawn, I rest my case.

 

You'll be presented the highly coveted Wagon Circling knot at the next awards dinner. Guess what's on the menu? "Philmont Surprise." Be sure to wash your hands.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[FScouter]

"If I may add one note from a layman: While expired food is usually okay, if stored at improper temps and conditions, it can go south pretty quick."

 

And, the same thing can be true of food where the "expiration" date is months or longer in the future.

 

And just noting that the original post is about a trek from Gorham Scout Camp (wherever that is) and NOT Philmont Scout Ranch. And there is zero evidence presented that anyone other than Gorham is responsible for "expired" food. At least have the courtesy to trash the right folks and the right camp.

 

Of course when in doubt, blame the evil "national" for anything and everything that goes wrong. Sheesh! Next time save a buck and get your own food and hike your own trail and blame the troop committee if you get a bellyache.

 

[desertrat77]

FScouter,

 

Touche', point well taken. Expired food from one camp, bought and issued at another. Good clarification.

 

Still, your rush to accuse the trekkers of being unsanitary vulgarians, and then declare the meals to be wholesome and delicious, without you yourself being there, is wagon circling nonetheless.

[FScouter]

"... your rush to accuse the trekkers ..."

 

Hmmm, As I recall it is others that are accusing Philmont and the evil "national" of poisoning innocent young boys that paid good money, etc. My rush is to point out other possibilities.

And may I point out that "wagons" are never circled unless the arrows are flying.

[txbobber]

Sorry I did not jump in a little sooner on this. The Philmont Food that was out of date was purchased by another BSA Council - Gorham Scout Ranch just south of Philmont. I would like to think that when they purchased the food, that it was not expired but I do not know that. We were given Breakfast, Lunch and Dinners for a 4 day Trek. We had food that was expired as much as 3 years old, everything that had an expiration date was expired. Keep in mind that this food is stored in a storage building with no climate controle. We paid good money for a Trek and I would have expected food that was not expired sorry, I have a wife who is a Dietitian and the hospitals and such pitch their food and spices when they expire why shouldnt a scout camp.

 

The reason I posted was because when we brought it to their attention they told us they were sorry but they are told by council to keep the food for at least 3 years after it has expired.

 

This may also sound crazy to some of you but the only guys that got sick were the ones that ate the chicken and the tuna that was expired.

[desertrat77]

After the OP, the first arrow was aimed at the trekkers, a patronizing note about washing hands.

[desertrat77]

Txbobber, I'm in your corner. Our scouts and scouters deserve better.

[Abel Magwitch]

I see now how the Great Southwest Council's increased its assets almost two fold in the past decade - they saved on the high cost of food by serving trail food that expired in 2008.

[Nike]

They've been running treks at Philmont for how many years now and they overbuy food such that it is then sold second hand? I understand about having a margin for error, but it seems the National level problem has been over buying for the Philmont commissary.

 

As for the council, hell would have no fury like this parent having paid/supported fundraising significant amounts of cash for a trek where the crew was served significantly out of date food. It's not like they were in a survival situation and that's all they could find in the broken down cabin.

[fred8033]

Apply the Scout Oath and Law. Apply the BSA goal of being a responsible citizen.

 

This is a classic ethics dilemma. A staffer stuck in the middle between higher ups saying to use multi-year expired food, manufacturers saying it's not good after the expiration date and a customer that depends on you. At some point, I have to ask myself if I'm being responsible, trustworhty, loyal, helpful, ...? Am I doing my duty to God and my country? Is it the right thing to do?

 

It's also a textbook legal question. Did anyone publish a written document saying that the three-year expird food is still good? Or is it just a rumor? Was the decision based on food facts or financial facts? Every worker has responsibilies associated with their job. Are you liable as a food industry worker if you know the packaging says it expired three years ago?

 

Plus ... scouts deserve better than expired food.

 

[eagle90]

If I am paying top dollar, I expect top product in return, whether it is a restaurant, car dealership, or trek provider.

 

I'm sure the troop didn't get a choice of the top notch trip or the slightly reduced trip with expired food.

 

This is one of the reasons our troop uses private outfitters for many of our trips when available. They tend to have better equipment, better food, and treat you like they want you to return, which we have. My apologies upfront to the BSA loyalists.

 

Dale