Getting Certified for Rock Climbing

[CNYScouter]

I had an ASM approach me about what is needed for becoming certified to take his Troop Rock Climbing?

 

I looked at Climb on safely and it gives organizations that certify but not a lot of details on which course to use (Like EMS they have a couple of climbing courses)

 

I have also seen a program for BSA Climbing Instructor Training but the only courses I can direct him too are in the far Western US (California, Oregon, Utah)

 

Does anyone know of one of these in the Northeast?

 

Dont direct me to our District or Council Training person as they dont have a clue about this kind of thing

[Beavah]

Yah, CNY, no "certification" is needed to take a troop rock climbing, eh? One leader just needs to be Climb On Safely trained (one of da online modules) and yeh have to make use of a reputable guide service for climbing instruction and supervision.

 

If you're talkin' about a unit self-guiding a climbing activity instead of using an outfitter then yeh need to be aware of a few things.

 

1) There is no such thing as "climbing certification" in the real world, at least until yeh get up to the AMGA Guide level (think people who can lead yeh up Denali).

 

2) Consequently, the BSA / G2SS / CoS guideline is that outside of usin' a commercial outfitter yeh get someone who has been trained to approximately that level by a national, regional, or locally recognized group. That can be da National Outdoor Leadership School, Outward Bound, a College or University outdoor leadership/rec program, PTC, etc. It might also be a local outfitter that trains climbing guides for its own staff. In other words, that yeh get real, genuine training at rock climbing and climbing instruction from someone reputable who does that sort of thing.

 

That should not be one of da typical seat-time "certification" trainings, eh? Da PTC offering IMHO is relatively weak, and that's a full week long outdoors. So yeh should look for something at least at that level of a week-long course (assumin' the fellow has plenty of personal climbing experience). I'd be a bit wary of da average Joe who has done some climbing leading kids in our sort of setting unless they've had some genuine experience with that sort of leading under supervision.

 

Yeh can find some of these locally, I'm sure. Here's a link for an outfitter offerin' the AMGA single-pitch instructor training in the 'Gunks:

 

http://www.high-xposure.com/

 

Yeh could also get an AMGA guide to set up a specialty/private class for yeh. Someone like

 

http://www.thegunksguide.com/

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Beavah]

I should add that if your council trainin' folks are clueless, the fellow from the troop can choose to do da PTC course to help 'em out. Also he might try to contact da climbing director in a neighboring council to see what they may offer.

 

B

 

[Wëlënakwsu]

If I read the Guide To Safe Scouting correctly: Assuming the activity is restricted to bouldering, top-rope climbing and belayed rappelling... And assuming you are located in New York... Then obtaining a New York State Tier II Rock Climbing Guide License may meet the qualified supervision & instruction points and your ASM certification desire.

See http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/30969.html

 

As per Safe Scouting it is snow, ice, lead climbing or canyoneering that involves instructor training from a nationally recognized organization.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

I held the Climb on Safely course and taught it back when I was a NCS COPE Director, back when climbing fell under that course instead of being separate. The BSA course is great for WALLS, but for true rock climbing, I'd advise working with pros.

 

Yes I did some rock climbing and repelling, I don't advise "ratrunning" down the White Cliffs of Dover , and yes I was NCS certified, but neither gave the the confidence be the head instructor for actual rock climbing as it is truly an art that takes years to master. You got to know how to read routes, use equipment, etc.

 

 

Not rigging up the tower at camp is a completely differently I'd do it in a heartbeat. Still no "ratrunning" as it is prohibited by the BSA (although it is a heck of a lot easier on a wall).

[nolesrule]

Agree completely with Beavah and 92.

 

And earning a certification or taking a class does not necessarily give you the confidence, permanent knowledge and experience to lead a rock climb, as Eagle92 points out. I'm a BSA Climbing Instructor, but I would never do more with it than help set up and running of the climbing and rappelling towers at our camp.

 

Taking the Climbing Instructor training, more than anything else, taught me how much I DON'T know about climbing.

 

 

[Beavah]

As per Safe Scouting it is snow, ice, lead climbing or canyoneering that involves instructor training from a nationally recognized organization.

 

Yah, couldn't figure out where josryan got this, eh?

 

Seems like da current version of G2SS has offloaded most of the climbing stuff to the Climb on Safely pages/training, so it's not in G2SS anymore.

 

That means someone like josryan can look at G2SS and come to the conclusion that only ice climbing and lead climbing require instructor training. That's very misleading! They should probably move all of the instructor training stuff to a separate document rather than leaving just that one little bit about ice and lead climbing.

 

Josryan, what you're lookin' for is point number 2 located here:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/Climb%20On%20Safely.aspx

 

B

 

 

[CNYScouter]

 

To claify my question.

 

This ASM is an experienced climber and is looking for what is needed for him to become a qualified rock climbing instructor.

 

...and after looking at the link Beavah provided under point number 2

 

The climbing instructor has successfully completed a minimum of 10 hours of instructor training for climbing/rappelling from a nationally or regionally recognized organization, a climbing school, a college-level climbing/rappelling course.

 

What it sounds like what I will need to do is to help him find a climbing instructor course that will meet this criteria.

 

[Beavah]

What it sounds like what I will need to do is to help him find a climbing instructor course that will meet this criteria.

 

Yep, if you're happy with da paperwork minimum. Easiest way for da fellow to do that is to take a BSA climbing instructor course from a climbing director at a neighboring council. That's da fastest to paperwork minimum, but it's a bit like nolesrule says, eh? That doesn't necessarily get yeh to what's safe.

 

Just like "experienced" canoeists, I've met all kinds of "experienced" climbers, eh? The fellow may be great, or not.

 

Da NY climbing guide requirements in your state that josryan linked to might be worth takin' a look at or askin' him about. They expect:

 

3 years of climbing experience, averaging 30 days of climbing per year for the most recent 3 years, and including 10 documented multi pitch lead climbs. Or, for top rope only, 60 days of documented outdoor top roping, at least 10 days in previous year, plus a full climbing instructor course.

 

B

 

[mike.jones]

I'm looking for a little advice here.

I am older scouter, in my 20s I was a radical climber bagged many big climbs climed all over Calif utah Colorado

Got back into it in my 40s and 50s been BSA climbing lead instructor 10yrs

Considering taking directors course at Philmont this fall

Any beta on course ?

 

[mike.jones]

FYI

7 Rivers Council in CT runs an exelent climbing instructor program every May

[RememberSchiff]

In NH

International Mountain Climbing School

http://ime-usa.com/imcs/

 

Eastern MT. Sports Climbing School

http://www.emsexploration.com/climb/amga-single-pitch-instructor-course/

 

In Maine

http://www.acadiamountainguides.com/professional/prof.html