moosetracker Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 So on the other thread there is mention that the draughts, the rules banning the transport of fire wood, and the LNT are all slowly killing the tradition of the campfire.. My LNT course gave an alternative to the campfire.. No warmth, I don't think it would have the magic of the open flames.. but it sounds interesting.. I guess those small led things you can put on key rings are waterproof. Because they say they put those into their plastic water bottles and use those for the camp fire.. I can see that haveing an erie glow of the light in the water, especially if some of the bottles have different colors. (My LED keyring light you have to keep pressing the switch. take thumb of and light dies.. Need to find right little light.. And have everyone else buy right little light.) Do other people have ideas for some alternatives to the campfire?? Something that will help keep the evening bonding still going whether your unit just huddled and talked, or did stories, songs, skits whatever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I really don't see and LED having the magic of a flame. How about a candle? Or several candles? Or are those banned too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 The LED itself? No.. But put into a bottle of water, I can imagine the water would give it some irridescent glow.. Have yet to try it, so it is just my immagination.. True magic of a flame? no.. And on a cold evening.. Warmth?? No.. Candles (more then one) would be good, if the wind isn't strong.. One to replace a campfire, would be very sad. Watching 8 or more guys huddled around one itty bitty candle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Luckily for us we are in a pretty wet area. Nevertheless, we have experienced 2 fire bans over the past 10 years. Both times the Scouts were restless and inclined to mischief. A fire really seems to focus them and keep them in one place and for the most part out of trouble. Not sure if the water LED or a candle could replicate that focus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Lets see if paraphrasing will work Who hath seen the LED at twilight? Who hath heard the LED in a bucket of water Shining ? Who is quick to read the noises of the night? Let him follow with the others, for the Young Men's feet are turning Too the camps of proved desire and known delight! it may be better to eliminate campfires compelety than to substitute a weak replacement When we couldn't burn leaves in Autumn, it was sad, but I got over it even though it left the world a bit less romantic and ethereal(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Marshmallows can be toasted over an open candle. But I think I'd prefer to stay home and watch TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 With the loss of the campfire, so goes the ashes ceremony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blancmange Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Stargazing - much better since your eyes can actually adjust to the dark. Work on the astronomy MB. Get one of those green lasers intended for this purpose (which are a novelty in and of themselves) for pointing out constellations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 BSA training experts replaced with EDGE the Patrol Leader and any "Explanation" or "Description" of a working Patrol in the Patrol Method presentation of Scoutmaster Training. Maybe they can also replace the glow of an evening campfire with the magic of EDGE! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Skip the campfire and go straight to your favorite outdoor game: Capture the Flag, Civil War, Manhunt, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Stay home is my only alternative. They have outlawed trash, (garbage pollution, pack it out) They have outlawed loud talking (noise pollution) They have outlawed bright colored tents (visual pollution) They have outlawed lasers, LED high intensity lanterns (light pollution) They have even restricted access to certain areas (people pollution) So that leaves two alternatives - stay home or .... Nope there's only one, stay home. Your mileage may vary, Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Stay home? Isn't the concept of a fixed structure building contrary to Leave No Trace? Back in the day, Scouting was less uniform, yet more like minded about being respectful of others. We could have camporees and summer camps where we all more or less got along without some individual or group making a big issue about someone doing something different. We still do campfires with local firewood (???? very odd to do otherwise???), LNTer's can join us in the light or they can stay in the darkness. If the activity is safe, start thinking about saying NO to those that say No To Everything Outdoors, Scouting, or Fun. And if that doesn't work, do the activity outside of scouting. My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 How am I gonna retire these old US flags without fire? It will be my ashes on the fire if I have to wait for a pile of LEDs to completely consume the flag remnants... (In the Southeast we'll always have campfires. Just poking fun at y'all. But if you need someone in the future to help you out with flag retirements...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 This is a good issue that I've encountered without finding a good method. How 'bout a "flashlight fire"? Each adult and Scout is invited to bring up their flashlight and add it to the "fire"? (As an added bonus you get to find out who was prepared with spare batteries when you are done, and/or you get to watch the campfire "fade away" late in the program!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 JoeBob - We will let you have a candle for your flags.. Hmm.. The cathole campfire.. I got yelled at for putting a spirel stake in the ground, due to it not being allowed for LNT.. As long as you twist it in & twist it out. It left no marks.. the carrying out of your human waste is due to they don't want you digging cat holes.. So, nope, the cat hole fire, and replacing the top soil after will not make your LNT'ers happy... So if in the backwoods, you have local wood in the deadwood aplenty, and no established campfire ring.. At a camporee, you may bring raised firepits, but no wood, and where we camp, there normally is not much wood to scrounge out.. Summer camp forests get picked over real fast.. Unless you live in the same county as the Summer camp.. no bringing wood from home.. So you can try to go on the first week of camp..I agree nothing will replace the campfire.. You can buy a bundle of kiln dried wood and take that any where (very small, very expensive).. If you are camping near a public campsite, some enterprising home sell a small bundle for $5 - $10.. Normally comes out to a buck a log. (Although there was one spot I found that I felt was giving you your moneys worth..) You can have a charcoal fire in your raised fire pit, or established campfire ring. The natural campfire is the best, but.. I think slowly we will see less (or at least smaller campfires that don't burn as long as in the past...) But, I don't think this is BSA rules killing this off, unless you feel BSA should not pay attention to the LNT nation wide established rules, that will be listed on the permits you obtain from the State or land owners whose land you are using.. Or that BSA administrative geeks were out the past few years infesting the woods with plant killing insects that burrow into the wood (Just to ruin our campfires..) Or that maybe these same BSA administrative geeks are doing the anti-rain dance which is causing the lack of rain, and fire bans.. Darn those administrative geeks!!! Really I don't think the same guys that thrusted the EDGE system onto us, are the same ones that are making our campfires harder to come by.. Unless you can blame them for expecting us BSA folks to follow the laws of your state, and those who own the land that you are hiking and camping on.. Darn those administrative geeks!!! Star gazing sounds good on a non-cloudy night.. But I am unsure about the lasers, someone in this thread said they are outlawed.. Games are good too, but don't know if you get the same bonding, and you may tucker the kids out, not sure about slowly winding them down.. I do not think that staying home and pouting if you go somewhere with no campfire, is the most mature thing to do.. Doesn't teach our scouts how to live in todays world, and work around the changing rules and laws due to the fact we humans are really making a mess of this planet.. Whatever LNT rules we face, Whatever state rules we face due to this planet being messed up, it is only going to be worse as they grow up. Do you really want to teach them that the solution is to give up & stay home?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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