Camping Merit badge

[Eagle92]

WOW, the few times I've seen Boy Scouts tagalong, they were doing some of their own thing. Ok dinner was with the group, I don't know of a Scout who likes doing KP, but they have slept in their own tents.

 

Then again, I like using older scouts and Venturers since I'm an old fogey now, and have Shanghied them into doing things with the Cubs with good results.

[Oak Tree]

We've had older brothers along on a number of Cub Scout camping events, and all the ones I can remember always slept in their own tent. I would definitely count camping with a Cub Scout pack.

 

I would count staff camping as the one week of long-term camp.

[bt01]

I know a scout that has ask to be signed off on this is badge but I told him he has to do 9 b2.

 

This scout & several of the other adult leaders never saw this requirement. This scout asked me what to do?. I told him to go out on a camping trip & do the requirement.

 

 

Several of the adult leaders(eagle scouts) asked about that requirement, when it was added to the badge. I told them; 10 years?

[BartHumphries]

"...think that camp staff sleeping in the outdoors qualifies but it is a specific type of camping. I don't think that using camp tents on platforms with cots should count..."

 

Wait, you all don't bring cots with you when you go camping? Sure, I can understand that sentiment if you're used to the big wooden cots that most camps seem to have, but a nice aluminum cot is only about a pound more than a sleeping pad. It's also much easier to set up and take down (no more slowly rolling it up with your knee while squeezing all the air out, fighting the cells that want to expand it and bring air back in, no more having to roll off, reinflate, roll back on in the night after you've been using it for a few years), far more comfortable, you can't really slide off during the night, if your old tent happens to leak you'll stay drier, it's just better in every way in my opinion. When I put two cots in my tent, the door "just" zips shut. I usually leave it half zipped because this is a real Mediterranean climate down here in Southern CA and the weather reports practically guarantee dry weather on every campout during the summer. When there's a chance that wet weather might threaten, or if some surprise springs up, I'll either wrestle with the zipper or just fold the cot up for the night. I also carry a plastic toilet seat.

 

When I was a young Scout, the "old men" carried things like that and having been hiking and backpacking for over a quarter of a century now I sort of consider that I'm qualified to bring those "old man" items with me. I was always sort of envious of them anyway on hikes. I'm -->

[Hawkrod]

BartHumphries, you took my comment out of context and edited it. I do not think it is appropriate or fair to change the meaning of a statement by only using part of the statement. What I wrote was "I don't think that using camp tents on platforms with cots should count for anything other than the "You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement." and that has a very different meaning that the part you commented on, not too mention the context was about using summer camp staff time towards earning the MB. My point was that I think the camping merit badge should be earned by actually camping. I don't care if you use a cot, in fact both my sons and I do use cots. My sons have aluminum ones and I am actually using an old Red Cross one (it is low but heavy duty). My point was that clicking off days by going to an outdoor motel does not teach the youth much in the way of camping skills and my belief is that they really need to camp with their Patrol or Troop and if they hike in it makes it even better! Because the requirements do allow for a week at resident type camp, I think that working at camp and living in that type of situation should qualify for that particular experience. And, as I noted, that is my opinion and yours may be different. The problem as I see it is that there are parents and Scouts that will do anything to earn a MB while not learning or experiencing it. Yes, there are plenty who do get a lot out of it but there are always a few doing their best to "shortcut" the system. For example, ss we just talked about, the dad who is the sons MBC for 20 some odd MB's and some other recent discussions that are about the boys actually learning "to do". The ones that "shortcut" or "simplify" the process are usually the same ones who don't "get" the point of the aims of Scouting. Earning merit badges is a method of Scouting but for too many it is THE goal.

[bt01]

Hawkrod, Been their and dealing with it. Part of the reason why I started the post was there where several eagle scouts that did camping merit badge in 1970's and did not have to deal with 9b. Kindly said that the scout in question has to to 9b. I asked him if he had done it and did the TC have the records on it.

 

One of the adults said he did not have to to it or something like that.

[BartHumphries]

I think it might be difficult for an active boy to not meet the 9b requirements. If you go to a scout camp or climbing with your troop, you'll probably end up rappelling down a 30' high tower, or down a 30' high rock. Then there's the "backpack... for at least 4 miles" which seems like it would be really easy to meet, unless the troop hasn't done anything but car camping/summer camp. That would give you 9b2 and 9b6.

 

All requirements of a merit badge must always be met in order to get the merit badge.

 

As far as working at a summer camp goes I think that, technically, you could count the entire summer as the text could be rules lawyered to allow for that, but I think the spirit of the requirement is that "only" a week of long-term camp counts towards the merit badge.

 

Sorry, Hawkrod. I meant that more as an "ad" for aluminum cots, which I think are incredible. I love them personally, but I'd still feel more comfortable bringing mine if everyone was using one, you know?

[bt01]

This is this section, do 2 of the 6.The scout did not read the Merit Badge book before he came to me. I spoke to the scoutmaster and the troop committe about this. I asked for records from the troop there was none. There as none for the scout in question or for any one. The scout, the scoutmaster and the committe know where I stand. The scout and the troop has to complete this at summer camp or on any troop camp out: for me to sigh off.

 

Will they go to some one else???? Your guess is just as good as mine. Will the other merit badge person sigh off with out him or any one else doing it ? You tell me??

 

2. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:

1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet.

2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles.

3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

4. Take a non-motorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.

5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.

6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

[gcnphkr]

The tents that staff use at our resident camps are miserable little hovels that I would not wish on anyone. But even then, I don't see how more than a week of that could be counted.

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

Bt01 wrote:

 

"Part of the reason why I started the post was there where several eagle scouts that did camping merit badge in 1970's and did not have to deal with 9b. "

 

The Camping merit badge requirements have changed quite a bit since the 70's. Here is the text of requirement 8 (ancestor of today's req 9) from the 1975 printing of the 8th edition Scout Handbook:

 

8. Show experience in camping by the following:

(a) Camp out a total of 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky of under a tent you have pitched. (You may use a week of summer camp as part of the 20 days and 20 nights.)

(b) On one of these camping trips, hike 1 1/2 miles or more each way to and from your campsite. Pack your own gear plus your share of patrol gear and food. (This camp is in addition to the one for Camping skill award.)

© Serve as one of the cooks for your patrol for at least five meals prepared in camp.

[end of req 8]

 

So that one really hasn't changed all that much, backpacking (or at least hiking lugging your gear) was required, not an option, and cooking was required. Maybe you should give the scouts the option of substituting their Dads' req 8(b) and © for the current req 9(b).

 

Regards,

DWS

 

edited to add missing parenthesis(This message has been edited by DancesWithSpreadsheets)

[BartHumphries]

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/docs/mb-memo.gif

Scouts may use the version of the merit badge that was current when they started working on the merit badge, presuming that they have a way to show what those requirements were at that time (they have the merit badge book from then, or found it on archive.org, or something) and that they started the merit badge then. Otherwise they have to use the current version of the requirements.

[Hawkrod]

BartHumphries, my apologies, as I have mentioned in the past, I have Aspergers syndrome and am very literal. Have you seen the TV shows Bones, or Big Bang Theory? That is me at times. I don't actually grasp subtle innuendo or sarcasm unless I am specifically looking for it. I can be a real stick in the mud at times and when the stick isn't in the mud it may well be up my backside! Again sorry for not recognizing your post for what it was meant to be.

[bt01]

Ok then it was req 8 now its 9.

 

 

The impression that I got from the from troop about 9 is we have to do more than just camp? They all most called it extra?.

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

 

You have a Troop that, when they do camp, does not do anything but sit around the campsite?

 

You have a Troop that keeps no records on it's Scouts?

 

You have Scouts who do not know the requirements for a Merit Badge, yet claim to have earned it?

 

You have a Troop that thinks that Merit Badge requirements have not changed in 40 years?

 

You have Eagle Scout adults that do not know that only the most current Merit Badge requirements can be used?

 

Wow. Interesting Troop.

 

Will a Merit Badge Counselor sign off on requirements that have not been met? Possibly. There are all kinds of people out there that are registered as MB Counselors. Some people are not all that truthful, or have their own agendas.

 

[BartHumphries]

Yeah, it does kind of seem like overkill to me too. Luckily, it seems pretty easy to complete.

 

Those climbing walls at summer camps seem 30' tall (although you'd want to check to make certain) and COPE/HA rules mandate that you talk people through how all the safety stuff works, etc. (which is proper preparation) and camps can't have just anyone manning those (so there's your supervision). I can't volunteer to take anyone climbing right now -- my ropes and soft gear can only be used for me and friends, not for Scouts (they're past the BSA's 5-year limit). If you have your own gear, though, I can supervise (if you live in Southern CA and want to travel out to Lake Perris or up to Lake Arrowhead).

 

Then make sure the Scout has gone on at least a 4-mile backpack trip (which the scout probably already did at least one time in those 20 days/nights of camping, so that's easy) and 9b is complete.