Camping Merit badge

[bt01]

I have read the requirments for camping merit badge. Does the 20 days and nights have to be scout camping, done as a scout with a scouting unit??

 

I know a scout that has ask to be signed off on this is badge but I told him he has to do 9 b2.

 

9 Show experience in camping by doing the following:

 

1. Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

2. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:

1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet.

2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles.

3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

4. Take a non-motorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.

5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.

6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

3. Perform a conservation project approved by the landowner or land managing agency.

 

 

I told him I am not going to sign any thing until he show me, he has done ttwo of the 6.

 

 

[Eagle92]

What I consider Scouting events for this MB.

 

Troop Camp Outs

 

Patrol Camp Outs done prior to the ban in G2SS

 

Pack Camp Outs IF, stressing IF he's a den chief and is working the event. Campouts as a Cub Scout do not count.

 

OA events, i.e. Ordeals, Fellowships, and Conclaves IF, again stressing IF, they are not held at a college and the scout is sleeping in the dorms by nie and flirting with the cheerleaders during the day

 

Jambo

 

HA bases,both national HA bases like Philmont, Florida Sea Base, and N. Tier, as well as local HA bases like PAMLICO SEA BASE (www.pamlicoseabase.org, sorry I just have to plug it)

 

Venturing camp outs

 

Depending upon the Sea Scout activity I would as well. If they are sleeping on the beach, under the stars or in a tent, yes. Sleeping on the deck of their boat, nope To many creature comforts of home on a boat.

 

[The Blancmange]

 

Does the 20 days and nights have to be scout camping, done as a scout with a scouting unit??

The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event.

I know this requirement generates some confusion regarding interpretation of the long term camp language, but it seems crystal clear about whether it must be "scout camping."

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, I'm not sure how much more clear this could be. You ask the question Does the 20 days and nights have to be scout camping, done as a scout with a scouting unit?? and then you post the requirements that state The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event.

 

So the answer to your question is "Yes".

[nolesrule]

Well, sorta. It doesn't necessarily have to be with a scouting unit, so long as it is a scouting event. If the scout is camping while helping run a Cub family camp, that is a scouting event. OA weekends are scouting events. No unit involvement in either.

[Beavah]

Yah, what everyone else said.

 

Yeh then seem to be asking about the second bit, number 9(2).

 

Yes, those must also be done on a scout campout. Not on a day trip. Not with the local REI on his own.

 

And yes, as MB counselor you should not award him the merit badge until he has satisfied you that he has met all of the requirements.

 

Beavah

 

[Oak Tree]

nolesrule, OK, you got me on a technicality.

 

If the scout is camping while helping run a Cub family camp, that is a scouting event. OA weekends are scouting events. No unit involvement in either.

 

I'm going to say that technically, the pack camping trip is indeed with a Scouting unit - the pack. I think of OA chapters as units, but they are not technically units. There might be other times when the district puts out a call for volunteers, or some other event that is not unit based but is coordinated by some larger Scouting entity. You're right - there are Scouting events that are not unit events. I'd count those.

 

The one thing that has come up in other venues is whether merit badge work is a "Scouting event." My answer is no. It's an individual action designed to reach a Scouting goal, but it's not a Scouting event.

[bt01]

Whats is G2SS ??? how does it deal with Patrol camping?

[Eagle92]

BT,

 

G2SS (aka GTSS and GtSS) = Guide to Safe Scouting. Up until March 1, 2011 patrols could go camping on their own without adult supervision with the approval of the SM. The newest version of the GTSS removed the patrol camping without adult supervision. Now if a patrol want to camp, they need 2 adults, one of which must be 21+ and registered.

[jhankins]

What do you all think of camp staffing counting towards those nights if slept in the outdoors?

[Hawkrod]

I think that camp staff sleeping in the outdoors qualifies but it is a specific type of camping. I don't think that using camp tents on platforms with cots should count for anything other than the " You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent." part. Also, under normal circumstances, I would think that only a week of camping would count. Many camps work a week and then have a few days off and then come back and as a MBC for camping I would not count each time period as a seperate experience, just an extension of the same experience and would not think double dipping would be appropriate. Your MBC may have a different opinion.

 

I also wonder a bit about about the discussion of Cub camping. After thinking about it, I would consider "must be at a designated Scouting activity or event" to mean a Boy Scout function but that is my opinion and others may not agree. I would say Cub camping would not count if the boy was participating as a sibling but would count if it were a Den Chief with his den because then it would be part of his "job". Camping at Cub family camping would count if it were specifically being done as "service" with the approval of the boys leader otherwise it would be family camping outside of the "Scouting event or activity" concept only because it is not a Boy Scout "experience" and is not meant to be. The requirement does not say "unit camping" it says "Scouting event or activity" and I believe that there is an intended distincion but again that is just my opinion. The goal of earning the Camping MB is not to get the award, it is to get a distinct experience and gain knowledge. It is always easy to bypass the requirements but that does not benefit the youth and that really is the point of doing it in the first place. Learning and doing these things properly is key to coming away from the experience equipped to handle future experiences properly.

 

I also think any OA camping would count as that would be specifically a designated "Scout" event even if it is not unit function (again, the requiremenet does not say unit function").

 

The bottom line is that each MBC will interpret what qualifies as fulfilling the requirement and I know have have said no to several things that did not fulfill the definition as I read it. AS I noted above, I read the requirement "Scouting event or activity" to mean an official Boy Scout thing not a Cub event with a sibling, others may not agree but I think the boys will learn more from a Boy Scout camping event than they will family camping with the Cubs. JMO and your milage may vary

[Eagle92]

Hawk,

 

Must respectfully disagree. Cub Scout family camping IS a Scouting event, so even if the Scout went as a sibling, it would count. A wise man once said, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." Notice he didn't say "Boy Scouting," "Sea Scouting," "Senior Scouting" as Venturing was called at at that time, or "Cub Scouting." Green Bar Bill said "SCOUTING" and that includes Cub Scouts.

 

An aside and a vent. I am tired of folks degrading Cub Scouts. Are some of the complaints that I hear, and yes even commented on in the past, valid? Absolutely But the only way for them to learn to properly camp is to camp. And with some of the things I've seen with experienced campers doing the same things they complain the Cubs and their parents are doing. If you are doing the same thing that the Cubs and their families are doing, can you really complain?

[Hawkrod]

I understand but as I noted, I don't agree that a sibling tagging along at a Cub event counts anymore than a church camp or anything else like that for the reasons I noted, it may be a unit event but the Scout is not participating in his role as a Scout. Now, having said that, you may need to know that I have been primarily a Cub leader and until recently was not all that involved with Boy Scouts so my perspective is from somebody who has spent most of his Scouting time as a Cub leader. I do agree that the Cub side does get a bad rap at times and don't think it is well deserved but poor Cub camping experiences and lousy Cub training make for poorly performing Scouts.

[Eagle92]

Hawk,

 

Understand where ya coming from. Glad you realize that Cubs do get a bad rep. And please bear in mind that the rant is not aimed you or at any person in particular. Dealing with with the "Cubs don't need to camp" mentality in my neckof the woods and it is drivingme up the wall. Especially since some those who are complaining are doing the exact same thing that they say the Cubsa re doing.

 

But the question is this: do you honestly think a Boy Scout will stay in the same tent as the rest of his family or will be either A) pitch his own tent, or B) sleep under the stars? Also do you not think that the Boy Scout will not be learning the camping skills in the outdoors? Will he not use some, if not all, of his camping gear on the overniter? And think about it, what happens when Boy Scouts show up at a Cub Scout event... the Cubs follow him around like puppies asking all kinds of questions. What type of pack is that, where did you get that cool tent, how come you your sleeping bad is so small, ad nauseum.

 

To use another GBB quote, " Scouting is Outing!"

 

Forgot to add: Sometimes the scout with his family can get it through the most hard headed of Cubs on what do do b/c they are the cubs heroes. Doesn't matter how many times the DL says it, if the Scout says it, they will do it and imitate him. Man I miss my DC.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[Hawkrod]

I guess that is where our experiences have differed. I have done hundreds of nights of Cub camping and can't say I have ever seen an older sibling exhibit "Scout" skills when camping with the cubs (even when asked to). They usually bunk with dad and bro and generally don't do much although a few have gotten in some pretty good trouble! LOL I am not aware of ever having one come to one of our events with his "gear" and also have never had the boys following them around "like puppies" that I remember. That has probably colored my perspective. My experience has been much more the "why do I have to do this, it's his campout" type of mentality. Now the Den Chief, that is a whole 'nother thing and much more like what you are describing. Hawkrod