Campouts without the scoutmaster

[T&S]

Where can I find something in write that states that a Scoutmaster has to be at every outing? I have a committee member who thinks that the scoutmaster has to be at every outing. But to my understanding if there are enough trained assist scoutmaster. Are in the troop they can go as the adult to help the SPL as needed in place of the scoutmaster. Am I incorrect if so where can I find it in writing?

[FScouter]

Why do YOU feel the need to find something in writing. Let the committee member find something in writing to support his misconception.

[Eagle92]

You won't find a rule either way.

 

But looking at a local tour permit, it states

 

Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours.

Coed Venturing crews must have both male and female 21-year-old leaders for overnight activities. All registered adults participating in any

nationally conducted event or activity must have completed BSA Youth Protection training. At least one registered adult who has completed

BSA Youth Protection training must be present at all other events and activities that require a tour permit. Youth Protection training is valid for

two years from the date completed.

 

That's from the 2009 printing of the LTP. Also the Guide to Safe Safe Scouting states:

 

...Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings....

[John-in-KC]

Another piece of arcane knowledge and Indian lore.

 

Frank has the right of it, ask the MC to show you this in the BSA literature.

 

E92 has the right citations!

[T&S]

Thanks folks all the information, is a great help. An to reply to FScouter the reason I guess that I would like to see things in writing, is to insure that I have the most correct and updated information. It like training to me, the scouts in the troop need a will trained and correctly informed leader or leaders to guide them along. If I am wrong to thinking that way, I guess I will just have to be wrong. God bless and have a Merry Xmas and a great new year.

 

[CHLees3rd]

I agree with everyone's advice. Let the Committee Member go on the wild goose chase to prove his/her point. Until he/she can "enlighten" everyone with facts in writing, say that the way things run now are just fine. The Scoutmaster is not required to be on all outings.

 

Chazz Lees

[Eagle732]

I was wondering what your MC would do if the SM missed a trip. Fire him? Cancel the trip? Geez!

Ask the MC what should happen when a Committee Member misses a committee meeting?

[SSScout]

"...registered Scouter..."

 

When a Patrol goes off on a trip, without the rest of the Troop, overnight or not. would they need the SM with them?

Register the Patrol Dad, (or in a local case, the Patrol Guide's dad) , and they're in business.

Have your CC encourage ALL adults register as "Scouters". They don't even need a title, I don't think, but what the hey, make'm all ASMs.

Then encourage them to register with MyScouting, and take all the online courses they wish, definitely YP.

 

After all, "it's for the kids". Oops, wrong script...

[packsaddle]

If a group of boy scouts (a patrol) decides on their own to organize a trip out into the wilderness for that group to go camping, and then takes charge of the entire thing on their own, why on earth would anyone want to impose an adult leader on them? BSA doesn't require it.

 

I someone argues to the contrary, I ask where the line is to be drawn? If the group wanted to meet for a day-hike in the same area? If the group wanted to camp in the vacant area on the church property? If the group wanted to go out there for a couple of hours in order to check out the terrain? If the group wanted to go for an afternoon to practice their knots?

 

I say that if a group of boys wants to take on this kind of responsibility, a leader might provide advice if their plan seems to have problems, but by all means let them give it a try. This is sure what we did when I was growing up, even before I was old enough for boy scouts.

[Eagle92]

Pack et al,

 

 

Something that hit me a minute ago in reference to patrol camping and why would you force adults on a patrol event. Legal reasons. Some jurisdictions do have stringent laws, i.e. Cary, NC ban on sheath knives, and having a group of teenagers out on their own without supervision could be considered neglect. Now a lawyer, but something to consider. After all the old OA Tapouts were considered 'child abuse" in some jurisdictions, hence the OA no longer does Tapouts.

[moosetracker]

In my opinion the big thing that would be a wet blanket on the unsupervised patrol is getting the CO (COR) and the parents of the scouts to buy into the idea and give permission, even if the SM was sold on the idea. In this day and age it would be a tough sell to get all agreeable to it (most parents now adays fear the imaginary maniac in the woods..) My husbands job takes him to neighborhoods where they have built indoor playgrounds so their kids never have to leave the house for fear of infected mosquitoes, ticks, birds, bees "you name it".

 

The best a SM who would like to "someday" be able to do it, can do is to make sure they are working toward the goal of their patrols being self-suffient so that they can hope to sway the CO/parents into believing in the capability of the scouts ability.. At least if the SM is working toward this goal, the scouts will still win, and have a troop truely run by the boys. Even if they never get the nervous over protective COR/parents to consent..

 

But, seriously I see few troops getting the thumbs up from all the people you need to sway to be able to allow the patrol to go off on their own without adult leadership. Those that do get the approval are rare and far between..

 

[ScoutBox]

For the past two years I've been with my Troop no SM has ever attended any Camp outs. ???

[Stosh]

As SM I go to as many activities as I can make. The rest are covered by my ASM's, that's why I have ASM's. Just like APL, he takes over when the PL isn't there. Duh!

 

Sometimes my boys plan activities when it doesn't fit my schedule. I did 2 weeks of Jambo and 1 week of summer camp. That's all my vacation for the year. The boys also did a 4 day back pack trip Wednesday -> Saturday. There was no way I was going to take off work without pay to go with the boys. I had an ASM and his wife that went with the boys, no problem. He's a school teacher and had the summer off.

 

Some of this stuff is common sense, but it sounds to me from the very first posting that there are control issues being bantered around in T&S's troop. When everyone runs around looking for something in writing, it usually means something's afoul.

 

Stosh

[EagleBeaver]

hmmmm, and here I am, a scoutmaster still trying to push the scouts out into the woods on their own. As a matter of fact, I've been asking the SPL to arrange a meeting of the 9th-11th grade scouts for the past month to discuss with them what they'd like to do early next summer all by themselves with no 'little kids' around.

They've all been on high adventures and have all the skills they need, it seems just not the motivation or imagination.

 

 

[ScoutBox]

Mn_scout.. it's hell getting the older boys top break free of their weekends to go out..