What kind of tents do scouts use, anyway?

[clemlaw]

In the other thread, jblake47 wrote:

 

"I'll take a wall tent over a dome tent any day for coolness. Ever wonder why there are grommets in the 4 corners?"

 

OK, this brings up a question I've had for a while, along with a horrible confession on my part.

 

What kind of tents do scouts use these days, and why have they moved to what appears to me to be a poorer alternative?

 

I've been away from scouts for 30+ years. I still don't have a lot of experience with the way things are done these days. But from my limited experience of Cub Scout camping, and looking around at neighboring troops, it looks like most scouts are using nylon "dome" tents.

 

My family owns one of these, because when we got around to buying a tent, there was a cheap one on sale at Target, and it seems to meet our needs just fine. But frankly, it doesn't seem like "scout" camping. When I was in scouts, as far as I can remember, there were only three kinds of tents.

 

The first was the canvas "wall tent", which was held up with two poles, and about a half dozen stakes (unless there was an immovable object nearby that could take the place of some of the stakes).

 

These, of course, were heavy, and you wouldn't use them somewhere if it was too far away from the car. But you could mostly stand up in them, they were large, the sides could be opened for air, etc. They looked somewhat rustic, but there were actually much more convenient, as far as I can tell, than the "dome" tent of today. The troop (and/or possibly the council camp) owned these tents.

 

The second option was the "pup tent", which was used in situations where the tent needed to be packed in. It was also supported by two poles (which could be replaced with sticks in an emergency), and a half dozen stakes. They were nylon, and AFAIK, no heavier than a comparable "dome" tent. They were also easy (and very intuitive) to set up, especially if you knew how to tie a couple of basic knots (which presumably, Boy Scouts ought to be able to do). The "pup tents" were owned by individual scouts, and they were very cheap.

 

The third kind of tent that our troop sometimes used were "family" type tents, that were probably for sale at normal department stores. They had exterior frames, but still required some stakes and ropes. I'm guessing that the troop bought these because they were cheaper than "wall tents", yet adequate for many purposes.

 

Now, my horrible confession: I'm an Eagle Scout, but my wife is in charge of setting up our "dome tent". The thing is just too complicated for me, even though it does not require tying any knots. If I go camping without her, I bring the old "pup tent", because it's obvious how the thing works. With the "dome tent", I'm never quite sure whether I'm sliding the poles through the right loops, sticking them in the right grommet, etc. The thing comes with _instructions_, which AFAIK, the "pup tent" never had, since it was so simple.

 

Why has there been the shift from the "wall tent" and the "pup tent" to the now ubiquitous "dome tent"? As far as I can tell, the only advantage is that no knots are required. Are there really that many knot-phobics in the world? And even if there are, it seems to me that a "wall tent" or a "pup tent" put up with granny knots would still be superior to the "dome tent".

 

Yes, the new tents are more complicated. But as far as I can tell, there not any better.

 

Have I just seen a skewed sample, or are most scouts really using these monstrosities these days?

[perdidochas]

Scout sized dome tents (usually "3 person") are simple to set up. Usually just two fiberglass or aluminum poles that criss-cross in the center (after going through sleeves) and then hooking to the four corners of the tent (either a grommet or a peg). Then a rainfly over the top. Pup tents are just not considered as practical. Try to find one in an outdoor catalog. You will find probably 8 or 10 dome tents for every pup tent. I remember the old pup tent from my scouting days. IMHO, they are much inferior to dome tents, as they can be taken down by a single rope slipping (and I can remember having my tent collapsed on me by a rival patrol).

 

[perdidochas]

The other part to domes vs. pup tents, is that dome tents have more usable headroom than do pup tents. Pup tents usually have a high spot in the middle, and rapidly sloping sides. Dome tents have a more circular high spot, making for more headroom for the same height/floor size than the pup tent. That is why pup tents are disappearing from the market.

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

I had two of those nylon pup tents, one with and one without a rainfly. The one with the rainfly was a White Stag and was not a bad tent, easy to set up, kept you dry and you could even take the tent down while leaving the fly up, handy when breaking camp in wet weather. The less said about the other one the better.

 

I'm not sure why the pup tent style is not available anymore, but I think a good dome tent is superior to the pup tent design. Set up may not be intuitive, but it is easy. I took a group of cub scouts camping two weekends ago and even the families who did not own a tent and used one of the Eureka dome tents we borrowed from the boy scout troop had no problem setting them up. They are free standing so they don't fall over when someone "accidentally" trips over a guy line. Most have two good size doors (without a pole in the middle of them) making entry and egress easy, and the vestibule is a great feature too.

 

As an aside, I do remember about 30+ years ago we a pair of brothers in our troop whose parents bought them a new-fangled dome tent, we thought it was hilarious to pick it up and move it when they weren't looking.

 

If your pup tent works for you, by all means use it. Mine wore out long ago and I am very happy with my Alps Taurus 2 AL, but if given the chance to trade it straight up for a mint condition White Stag I'd have to give it some thought.

 

Regards,

 

DWS

[clemlaw]

Oh, yes, it's vaguely coming back to me....

 

If you have the tent stake going into sand and it rains a lot during the night, the thing can fall down on top of you.

 

OK, maybe those new-fangled things aren't quite so bad after all. I guess I'll ask my wife to brush up on the EDGE method so that she can show me how to set it up.

[Eagle92]

As i was taught way back when in Camping MB class at summer camp, ok I actually read the MBP prior to summer camp and was ready for the class, each type of tent has advantages and disadvantages.

 

I love my 2 man A frame, but need the space of my 7 man dome when family camping.

 

Can't wait to wean the kids off their "supplies"

[BartHumphries]

A dome tent is easier to play a good round of cards in during a campout, since there's enough headroom for multiple scouts to sit in a circle with a flashlight/lantern strapped to the ceiling while "stuck" inside the tents because it's pouring rain outside. It's also easier to stand up and get dressed in the tent. Plastic/nylon is more waterproof than any treated canvas could be. The dome tents are far lighter than canvas tents and if you stuff your pack inside the tent whenever you make camp then you don't even have to bother staking the dome tent down (it's not going to fly away with 30-60 pounds of gear inside), which means you can just leave the stakes at home. The dome tents even take up less space in a pack and fold up better. It's all possible because we have modern-day materials and ways of making things that people throughout the past few millenia would have literally given their teeth to have had.

[SSScout]

Long ago, humans discovered that cloth/animal hides stretched between/around poles (trees)could protect from sun and rain.

My Scoutdaze tents were of three types:

* Tarps, either canvas or plastic. Drape over a rope stretched between two trees, or some other creative means of support.

* Wall tent, or it's cousins, the Baker, or Camper or Explorer. Canvas and not usually anything else.

* The Pup tent, canvas or coated nylon, of varying size. Surplus shelter halves, bigger Eureka types, or on up to the classic summer camp Wall tent on a platform.

The rained on canvas was dry until you touched it. But , it kept the rain off and sun out of your eyes and the drip of what ever it was from the trees at night.

 

Temporary shelter was changed forever by four developements, which seemed to come about the same time: The improvement in materials (coated nylon, plastic self healing zippers, fiberglass poles), the external support systems ("umbrella tent"), and attached waterproof floors! No more seperate ground cloth!

Thus you had ease of erection, lighter weight, more unobstructed space inside, nothing to forget or set up badly (ever had the rain come down the tent, onto your groundcloth and into your tent? Tuck that GC inside!)and NO CREEPY CRAWLIES! I have found this last to be the single most unapreciated improvement between then and now.

If you want a tent to entertain in, yu can get a big dome tent. If only shelter for the night, then a tarp will still suffice.

I went on a Troop trip and the Scouts oohed and aahed at the tarp I set up. Course, it was only me, but what more did I really need? A 10 by 15 foot tarp, 5 feet on the ground, staked snug, folded up 4 feet with two poles I cut on the spot, and over the last 6 feet to cover with two more poles. I did bring the pegs with me, but cut four just for show. It was roomy and protected from the morning drizzle.

 

 

[Stosh]

Having camped all my life, I have many tents for which I use in different situations. If I'm doing car camping, I use my heavy canvas tent (A-Frame) that give me maximum protection. I use a cot and store my gear in a plastic bin. When it rains like gang-busters, I get out my chair, set it up, hang my lamp, put my feet on the cot and let the rain run right through the floor-less tent. It is held down with no guy-wires. 9 - 1' stakes around the edge hold it up and it's never gone down on me. It's got 3 poles and is like a pup tent that's tall enough to stand in. I can camp a whole week in that with no problem.

 

If I'm back packing, I have a bivy tent. It's cramped but dryer than meadow crashing on a rainy night. I have two rubberized blankets that work nice for meadow crashing, too. I roll up in one and toss the other over my head with a stick to keep it up off my face. Been through some pretty heavy storms with that and always kept dry. If it's hot and I don't want to use the second rubber blanket, I sometimes use a nylon military poncho instead.

 

If the weather looks bad and I don't want to take the big A-Frame, I use the standard military pup tent with vestibules on both ends. A small cot and rubber blankets and I'm good to go. Water runs through, but I never notice.

 

Whereas nylon tents with floors have the constant struggle of trying and keep the water out. Well, if it comes in on the high side because of some leak, chances are there is no drain for it to exit. Welcome to a tent with swimming pool!

 

I work with nature. If it wants to come in, fine, but just keep on going!

 

If I brush the canvas and it starts to drip, just toss the rubber blanket over the bag and roll over and go back to sleep. A little secret from the old geezer? If it's dripping over your bag, touch the drip and slide your finger down towards the side of the tent. Water will leak in and run down the finger path you just made and will drip next to you instead. With no floor it will soak in pretty quickly.

 

Learn to work with nature, not fight it.

 

No tent is going to be as dry as one's bedroom back home. Adjust.

 

Yes I own a 3-man Kelty, modern with rain that offers double vestibules and plenty of room. It's good but I get wet more often in that than any of the other tents because it doesn't have a decent drain.

 

Stosh

[Moggie]

http://www.1stwestbury.org.uk/index.php?page=photos&album=14&menuid=9#

 

Hopefully this link will take you to the patrol tents we brought with us to the US this summer. We camped at Schiff Scout Reservation, Long Island (had a great time, thanks to the guys there who helped us). They are Kyham 8 man canvas tents that weigh a ton! We had to break them down from their valise and distribute amongst the scouts baggage.

For a standing camp the patrol lives together in one tent.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

[thriftyscout]

My 2 cents on tents:

 

I have never gotten wet in a "modern" tent unless I did someting dumb like leave a flap open, ground cloth sticking out etc.

 

For week long summer camp, I like to be able to stand up in the tent. I have used a Coleman family tent from a big box store once or twice a year for about ten years. The zipper gave out this year and I am considering just using the camp provided wall tents. I slept in one first/last night at Philmont last year but they don't have as many bugs as Ohio. About 1/3 to 1/2 of our Scouts use these tents at summer camp.

 

For backpacking I just bought an MSR Hubba Hubba (two person) which I used for our week at Isle Royale and weekends so far this year. I like two vestibules, two doors, and the head room. The rain fly needs stakes or something to spread out the vestibule but is otherwise self supported. I had been using a Eureka Timberline which is also a great tent (a little heavy for backpacking). Its zippers started to fail after 20 years of use but I certainly got my monies worth out of it.

 

Our Scouts use their own tents and I have seen a wide variety. Most are pretty good. Zippers seem to be the achilles heal but I think that is more of a care of use issue.

[Stosh]

Zippers fail because people do not open the door all the way, try to cram themselves into the small opening, putting strain on the zipper teeth which will, being nylon, eventually give out. I always open my door completely, even in heavily mosquito area and have never had a zipper problem.

 

Stosh

[JerseyScout]

I both miss and don't miss the old canvas wall tents. When I was a Scout, those were the tents that the troop owned. They were awesome once you got them up. The downside was only the new 11 year olds ever used them, and those things weighed aproximately 14 tons each. Also, the poles hurt when they fell on you. One of our "this is MY troop" adults decided on his own to chuck them all out about seven years ago, along with the old army surplus "teepee" tent that seven or eight of the oldest kids used to cram into every trip (best. tent. ever.). I have never forgiven him.

 

Now days my Scouts use three types of tents:

 

a) The family style dome tent, either Ozark Mountain (aka: Wal-Mart brand) or whatever Coleman was on sale at Dick's Sporting Goods. These are generally massive and you can cram many, many Scouts into them, so they and twenty-seven of their closest friends can fit in one tent (more like 4 to 6 scouts per tent). The Ozark Mountain ones are junk and usually are destroyed within a year. The Colemans aren't bad, although the larger ones can be confusing the first few times they are set up. Adults can also get hours of entertainment trying to watch 11 year olds figure out how to reach up high enough to get the rainfly over their tent (answer: wait for the senior patrol leader to take pity on you).

 

b) The small one or two person backpacking tents, with the most popular model now being the REI two doored, two man, stand-alone tent. I purchased one of these myself ($80, hooray for a coupon) back in August, and I absolutely love it. Unlike every other backpacking tent I've ever used, its very easy to set up (three poles only, set up exactly like a regular dome tent), very light, and fits in two people with "essential" gear (more or less a flashlight and a change of clothes). Also, like a dome tent, it stands up freely without needing twelve stakes to hold it up, something I will love the first time I'm trying to pitch it anywhere on the AT. Two doors also allow for you to get up in the middle of the night to piss without disturbing your tenting buddy.

 

c) Led by our fearless senior patrol leader, there are the handful of my older boys who have decided after doing Wilderness Survival merit badge that they hate tents, and have started to sleep under tarps that they pitch (after deciding that it was too much work to build shelters from sticks and leaves every trip). After some intial problems (mostly getting wet), they are getting really good at figuring out how to rig them up. One of the second year scouts has begun to try to copy them. I get the feeling that in a years time I have have a field full of Scouts sleeping under tarps.