Cost of the Summit - Big Dig Part 2?

[KC9DDI]

My council is currently in the middle of trying to do an overhaul of one of its camp properties. While obviously a much smaller project than the development of a brand new high adventure base, it did provide some perspective as to how quickly costs can grow. It seems like a majority of the time and money spent on the project has been related to compliance with local and state laws and guidelines. Regulations on shower and bathroom facilities, plumbing and septic systems, kitchen and food storage, sleeping facilities, etc... it all adds to the cost of constructing the facility. It's not that the council is being wasteful, or non-thrifty - it's a matter of being forced to comply with over-the-top state and local laws. So, yes, it's easy to pontificate that you and 6 of your buddies can build a shower house in a weekend with some donated PVC and plywood, so why is it a multi-million dollar project for the council... But, remember, the council is responsible for ensuring the project meets health department guidelines, and is also robust enough to be used and maintained for years.

 

But it really just seems like a matter of not being able to please everyone. People gripe when a BSA property is sold, people gripe when the BSA buys new properties. People gripe when camp facilities are neglected and fall into disrepair, and people gripe when money is spent on improving the facilities. Everybody thinks they have "something better" to spend money on. Whatever.

 

Thus far, from what I can tell, it looks like the Summit project is generally going to be a good thing, and a good investment. Setting aside land, facilities and opportunities JUST FOR SCOUTING is a GOOD THING for Scouting. Developing a high-quality program, facilities and infrastructure on that land is a GOOD THING. That may come at a high price, but this is exactly the kind of thing that I LIKE to see Scouting's money spent on - directly providing facilities and program opportunities for our youth!

[Basementdweller]

that would be for the new ATV trails

[RememberSchiff]

"..where all that money will come from, maybe the next Jambo will be even more expensive? So far, I think donations have totaled 100 million.

 

In answer to my question - BONDS.

 

"The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Friday made their first move toward securing a $200 million tax-exempt bond to further fund construction of the Summit Bechtel Reserve.

 

If all goes as planned, the Fayette County Commission will issue the bond in the coming months, generating funds from the purchase of those bonds by financial institutions and, perhaps, individuals. Last year, the commission issued a $100 million bond for similar use by the BSA.

 

The Boy Scouts have almost spent the entire $100 million borrowed last year and they are moving dirt as fast and as rapidly as possible, says John Stump of the law firm Steptoe and Johnson, which represented the BSA at the county commission meeting Friday. They are in a position now to borrow up to an additional $200 million.

 

Though the BSA has significant pledges from donors for the Summit project, those funds generally arent paid up front, creating a need for construction monies. Stump says the BSA wants to be ready to ramp up construction when the weather breaks in March, to further prepare for the approaching 2013 National Jamboree. ..."

 

http://www.register-herald.com/todaysfrontpage/x594868673/Scouts-take-step-toward-tax-exempt-Summit-bond

[Twocubdad]

Interesting. Particularly interesting that this is the first mention of financing I've heard. The way the whole thing was presented at Jamboree summer before last, you would have assumed the Bechtel's brought the cash with them in small bills.

[shortridge]

Sounds more to me like National has the pledges, just not the money in hand quite yet. And it's always been clear that more money needed to be raised - the Bechtels only gave $50 million, a drop in the bucket. From the press release:

 

"The New River Gorge property will require a large investment. The effort has already received a large boost with the announcement of the $50 million gift from the S. D. Bechtel, Jr. Foundation."

 

www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/PreviousYears/2009/20091120.aspx

[johnponz]

I am starting to believe that the Scouters on this forum are mainly cynical, and do not like National no matter what they do. First, they cry that Scouting needs to return to its roots and have a better outdoor program. When they start doing this, the cynics yell that it is too expensive. I believe this is exactly where National should be spending their money. If we start giving Scouts something that is hard to find somewhere else (good clean fun combined with a high adventure flavor), we will hook them.

 

We have to provide Scouts with something they cannot get elsewhere, and I believe a new high adventure base to focus that effort is a good first step. Why do you all think that whatever National, Council or District does is not in the best interest of Scouting? For the most part the people at these levels are volunteers who just work at a higher level of Scouting, and are trying to make things better for all of us.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Engineer61]

I dunno, but maybe Summit is going to end up being the Disneyland of Scouting .... $500 million for a campground for 30,000 ... $16,666 per camper? Just for the construction?

 

That cost plus maintenance...would think the prices have to go up.

[skeptic]

Engineer; over time the cost per participant decreases, finally reaching a pretty much break even, though maintenance costs would extend it. How long does it take a major tourist park to recoup their costs? This is a good thing, especially with our continuing struggles with PC issues. But it also gives east coast people another great high adventure outlet, as well as re-institutes a training location in that part of the country.