Bechtel Site

[skeptic]

From a coal mining site newsletter in November, 2009. Do I read this correctly; the mineral rights are part of this? That could be much like the income from the Philco Tower.

 

Massey Energy Co. said today that it worked with the Boy Scouts to transfer mineral and surface property rights to the land that was acquired for the new Scouting site. Additionally, Massey Energy pledged a $500,000 contribution to support construction of the project.

[jhankins]

Did Mr. Bechtel's company own the land before it was bought for the BSA at any point in time? I know it's been strip mined, and the videos talk about leaving trails on the stripped ridges and putting program in the valleys.

[evilleramsfan]

BTW- When do they plan on opening it for high adventure treks? Is there a waiting list our Troop/Crew can get put on so we can be notified when it does?

[Pack212Scouter]

I wish we'd see more information on this...The reason could be much the opposite. I used to live out west in the 70's and mineral rights were a big deal if you wanted to keep a company from coming in a doing what they wanted on or under your property. I would hope that this means that BSA though far enough ahead to protect the property.

 

As for the High Adventure Base, I have heard that it has been pushed back to a 2014 opening, as they want to concentrate on Jambo 2013 first. That being the case, I would anticipate applications to open around Fall 2012 or Spring 2013(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[ScoutOne]

Like Pack212Scouter mentioned, the purpose of transferring mineral rights is to avoid having to grant access to the property for mineral exploration. This is an issue as you must the mineral rights owner on the property and can result in safety issues.

 

The focus is on the 2013 Jamboree. Other programs at the facility such as the High Adventure program are secondary. This post was made on the Facebook page by the administrator: "until after the 2013 National Jamboree, so 2014 at the earliest". It also does not make sense to open another High Adventure program right now with the economy and declining registration at Philmont. Last year Philmont had a almost 50% cancellation rate and went through the entire wait list.

 

If your unit is looking to try a National High Adventure other than Philmont, don't wait to find out when the Summit will open. Check out Sea Base or Northern Tier -- there are a lot of incredible smaller programs most never get to experience like Bahamas, Atikokan, and Bissett.

[RememberSchiff]

It also does not make sense to open another High Adventure program right now with the economy and declining registration at Philmont. Last year Philmont had a almost 50% cancellation rate and went through the entire wait list.

 

Our council is threatening to cancel this year's Philmont trip due to low sign-up (apparently no thought was given to merging with another council contingent). It's not just the economy. There are fewer scouts, more outdoor/summer options, and frankly Philmont needs to step up their programs and do more marketing.

 

My son looked at the recently posted film clip links to that Philmont movie. 'Wow it's beautiful but they are just doing the same stuff we do at summer camp here.' He was unimpressed with the black powder and 30-06 shooting. 'Why don't they do something more like Top Shot?'. Much of what I experienced at Philmont was new to me - backpacking, dutch-oven, rock climbing, dehydrated trail food, packing burros. Except for handling pack animals, my son has already experienced those things locally. In the past ten years or so, our unit has had about 8-10 scouts go to Jambo while 0 went to Philmont. Jambo is better marketed.

 

Yet all the Summit presentations stress that the Summit will be financially self-sustaining. Is that a pretense to close/sell those high adventure centers that are not self-sustaining? Maybe with their "corporate model", the only way a high adventure center can be sustainable is to host a National Jambo and if that is not enough host a World Jambo?

 

Gawd, selling Philmont would be to Scouting what selling Babe Ruth was to the Red Sox. Look how long that curse lasted!

 

My $0.01, need coffee

 

[Eagle92]

RS

 

I don't know if you are talking national promotion or local promotion, but in my neck of the wood PSR is promoted heavily by the OA and scouts and scouter who go. It's to the point that many in my council think it's the ONLY HA base around, often ignoring FL Sea Base, N Tier, and our local Pamlico Sea base (www.pamlicoseabase.org). In fact We had a DE who was a staffer at N. Tier prior to being a DE and a few folks asked him "What's N Tier" and "there's another HA base besides Philmont."

 

Then again some of the folks that helped create the OA Trail Crew are from this council, so that may be one reason why it's promoted heavily. Heck my oldest says he want to go there in 7 years.

[RememberSchiff]

National or local, I have seen little to no promotion of Philmont during our 100th year. Jambo-Jambo-Jambo.

 

Sigh, my oldest would rather go to the NRA Whittington Center Adventure Camp http://www.nrawc.org/ rather than Philmont. BTW the NRA Adventure Camp is fully booked for summer 2011, reservations for 2012 will be taken in spring 2011. I remember when Philmont had a backlog.

 

Both camps are in New Mexico.

 

Another $0.01

[skeptic]

In regard to Philmont being put up for sale somehow; I believe that is not possible under the granting of the property. I could be wrong, but I think it cannot ever be sold. Any attempt would cause its reverting to the Phillips family. Basically, it belongs to all the scouts and scouters in the program, not National directly.

 

Surely someone has more specific info on this.

[Pack212Scouter]

I think that other than the economy, the presentation of these high adventure bases has changed and that affects it. What I have heard locally is "You can go to Philmont and backpack...you can go to Northern Tier and canoe...you can go to Sea Base and swim..." The boys hear this and think "I can do that here cheaper."

 

The presentation needs to be "You can go here and do these things in a location that is really different and cool." It's not about the backpacking or the canoeing, or the swimming (yeah I know they sail, SCUBA, etc). It is about the adventure, and I think alot of that has been lost in the presentations that I have seen.

[skeptic]

Much of the best of our trips across the country to Philmont from Southern California was the trip itself, and the stop offs. Both sides of the Grand Canyon, Zion, Durango, Indian Country, Four Corners, and so on. You can do the hiking as well, or better more or less in our backyard, but the natural and historic sites along the way are far fewer.

 

Pro's and con's.

[Oak Tree]

Skeptic,

 

I have no idea what the conditions are. I don't believe there is any danger of Philmont being sold.

 

One reason it hasn't been marketed is that I suspect that they had more customers than they could handle for the longest time. They have rules that you can't come two years in a row. There are *lots* of things that they could do before they'd sell it.

 

That said, conditions can't really prevent it from being sold. Let's imagine that the Scouts had been only granted an easement to use the property, and if they stopped using it, it would revert back to the family. Let's imagine that someone wanted to buy the property for $50,000,000 or something. BSA could go to the family, and say, we'll give you $10,000,000 for all out rights to the property. At some figure, the family would say yes.

[infoscouter]

The National Council is almost exclusively using Facebook to disseminate information about the Summit. The page on the National web site has not been updated for several months. If you want the latest (pictures, etc.) Facebook is the way to go for now.

[ScoutOne]

Philmont consists of many land acquisitions made over time. I am sure each transaction had different conditions. The land donated by Phillips is deeded to the National Council but had conditions such remaining an operating ranch.

 

Bechtel Summit will be the seventh National High Adventure program. There are National programs that have closed due to declining participation (Maine, Wisconsin, and Between the Lakes). While there have been closed programs, there is no chance of the current programs being discontinued. All three programs are very, very busy as it is.

 

In the past to allow increased participation the existing programs have been expanded with satellite programs (Bahamas, Atikokan, Bissett, Okpik, Kanik). All these programs have (or had) the opportunity to allow increased participation. I suspect these programs may be at some risk when the new high adventure base opens.