Camporee Scoring/Handicapping

[OldGreyEagle]

Color me dazed and confused...

 

What I see here, and I could be wrong, is that what we want is a Camporee where there is a completley flat playing field. That all patrols are equal regardless of age and wisdom and skill and ability and rank.

 

Everything is massaged to make everyone is equal because that's only fair

 

And the entity doing the massaging of results is the "Governing" organization of the competition?

 

Did I miss something?

 

[scouts-a-lot]

What I want is an even playing field to combat the Troops that show up and have stacked all of their older Scouts into on patrol just for THIS event. In case you have never watched the reactions of the other patrols when the Screaming Eagles (and that is literally the name of the patrol because they are all Eagles) takes home first place in every event and for their Troop in the overall competition try it sometimes.

 

When I tried to get our Troop to go this year some of the complaints were "Why so the Screaming Eagles can win everything again?"

 

Our patrols range in age from 12-17 and most ranks. Same thing with most of the district.

 

Some patrols do OK but an even playing field is fine with me. I am mostly concerned about the patrols that consist of 11-12 yr-old new Scouts.

 

I have considered different levels of competition for different age groups but that drives up the cost of the event.

[Eagle92]

Howabout making the winning patrol members serve on staff the next year? Or howabout Life and Above are needed on staff?

[Beavah]

Or, if da problem really is with one troop who does the "Screaming Eagles" thing, why not have your DC approach da SM for a gentle "hey, come on now" talk? Or if yeh need da stick, don't invite them. Yeh shouldn't try to manage individual behaviors with "policy". Individual behavior you jus confront. Change da scoring only if a bunch of people are messing up the system. Just remember that you're always goin' to get folks who try to figure da best way to handle any system yeh make up.

 

Or, you can follow OGE and take the long view. Meet a couple of your patrols every other night for a month or two and practice like mad. Imagine the feeling they'll get when they beat da Screaming Eagles with hard work instead of whining! Imagine da lesson for your district when your kids brag about how they won with real patrols instead of ringers. Competition is meant to push us to do better, eh? Rent one of those movies like The Mighty Ducks to get 'em going.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Stosh]

I like the idea that the ringer patrols are next camporee's staff. They have to plan, run and score all the competitions.

 

1) Either they are not going to win so they don't have to do it.

 

2) They will win only every other camporee.

 

Too often we brag about being boy-led, but when the camporee rolls around, why are all the adult running the show? My boys often attend the camporees but take a pass on the competitions unless they look interesting. I mean, just how many times can burning a string be exciting?

 

Worse case scenerio? All the older boys back off because they don't want to "win" the hassle of setting up next camporee competition. A NSP from a troop wins overall! Wow what a neat thing for the boys. Then they come back next camporee having done their advancement/training in preparation for the competition? A second major benefit! The older boys tire of this whole business and go back to just being regular patrols and the whole emphasis at having to win every award that comes along doesn't seem as important anymore.

 

Stosh

[Gags]

How do the costs go up if you have a Sr. and a Jr. division? Wouldn't they all go to the same stations? Maybe more of a cost in ribbons and 3 extra trophies (if you do 1st, 2nd, 3rd), but we're talking $50 at most.

[SR540Beaver]

Just how does one go about "making" the ringer patrol staff next year?

[moxieman]

What's this "Trophy" thing?

 

We usually handout camping gear. First place gets first pick and so on down the line. How many places depends on how much gear we pick-up/get donated.

 

I'm talking things like a two burner stove, lantern, cooler, cast iron fry pan, etc.

 

You know, stuff the boys can use on future camping trips.

 

 

Nicest prize we had one year was a scout leader who made one of those plywood patrol tables...but he did it with birch plywood.

[Eagle92]

By stating that the members of the winning patrol also get the honor of serving on staff. Most of the camporees I've been involved in have adults in charge of events so that youth can participate. So makign it an honor to join the adult staff may be an incentive.

[OldGreyEagle]

the NFL preseason is underway, some of the teams have an excellent chance of winnning the Super Bowl, others just an outside chance if things break their way and others have no chance of making the playoffs. Yet every Sunday, or Monday, or occasional Thurday and Saturday all the teams in the league will be playing their games with no restrictions or handicaps on teams that have been judged "too good" for the rest of the league

 

Tired of the Screaming Eagles beating your butt? Learn the skills and beat then, don't rely on someone else to level the playing field. I don't know when we should teach the youth that there will always be someone bigger, stronger, smarter,faster, and then younger than you.

 

Talk about teaching entitlement, if one patrol is too good, we legislate them out of competition, we "Break Up the Yankees?"

 

The way to get strong is through competition and you learn more from losing than winning, or am I just out of touch?

[Eagle92]

OGE,

I think the OP is in refrence to ad hoc patrols, or troops creating ringers. I could be wrong on that.

 

I think that the normal patrols should be used for events. You shouldn't create ad hoc patrols.

 

Just my $.02 worth

[oldsm]

The problem generally isn't the boys - it's the adults. To wit:

A few years ago the boys in our troop decided to bone up on their skills before the Camporee - they were tired of getting beat by everyone else. To make a long story short, they placed first or second on almost all majority of the stations (we only had 7 boys at the Camporee, none above Star). When award time came, one of the awards that they should have received was given to another troop. The scouts in the other troop were surprised (because they had been running the station and knew what the scores were) and told our boys that they didn't know what happened.

 

When the adults running the Camporee were asked about it, they openly stated that they "juggled things around so that everyone took home a ribbon." Needless to say, those leaders lost a lot of credibility and respect from our troop. I guess they hadn't made the jump from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.

 

Handicap as you will, but don't play games just to be politically correct. Boys instinctively know the different between fair and not fair. In games and in life, there are winners and losers. And today's loser just might be tomorrow's winner.

[OldGreyEagle]

per normal, I have a story associated with my view and it comes form my youth (as long ago as that may be)

 

The troop of my youth had problems with Camporees, we had guys who just flat didnt care a rats butt if they did well, or if the patrol did well. This attitude grated seriously with those of us who took scout craft rather seriously and it lead to more than a few serious confrontations between those who were gung ho about scout skills and those who were not.

 

The scoutmaster solved the problem by putting those who wanted to be in the Gung Ho Patrol (We were the only patrol allowed to wear the "New" (at the time) red berets when they came out. Each scout was to be an Expert at one skill (mine was Morse Code) and a second skill (knots) then we hit the compettions. The patrol decided who would be in the patrol, well the patrol leader and the asst PL did at least. This was the patrol I was in, at scout meetings, at campouts, its was the patrol I belonged to and we were the Gung Ho's. It eliminated the confrontations between zealots and slackers.

 

Now, was this an affront to the Patrol Method? I will have to wait to see what Kudu has to say. We took boys who had a common interest and they stayed together while in scouting. I dont see the issue with putting youth who have the same dedication to scouting in a single patrol and keeping them there but then I could be wrong

[Eagle92]

OGE,

If the patrol is there year-round, i.e. it's a normal patrol in the troop, then I find it acceptable.

 

But if it's a patrol that is assembled just for the weekend, with the intent to win, I am against.

[OldGreyEagle]

lets assume its an "Ad Hoc" patrol, how does that effect whether or not your Troop does the "Gung Ho" patrol method and the youth form their own patrol of "stacked" scouts? Either the scouts in the troops want to win and will form a patrol to beat the others or they don't care. If they dont care, why should the adults?

 

I cant think of anything better than beating the Screaming Eagles at their own game, well on the field of compettion with a legitimate patrol.