WestCoastScouter Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Had a cordial disagreement last night at pack committee meeting... To take Webelos out camping (lets say at local scout camp)for a weekend... What training, if any, is necessary...?? I'be been told (1) "none because they are Webelos" (2) BALOO (3) IOWLS Help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 (1) None BALOO is required for taking the entire pack camping. IOWLS is recommended but not required for taking Webelos camping. If anyone tells you something is required, ask them to show you the reference. The entire Guide to Safe Scouting is on-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Some councils have stricter regulations than National. Always best to check with someone at your council offices. The person who approves Tour Permits is a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg98adams Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 I expect you have Webelos leader position training (that way you know about Guide to Safe Scouting, fire safety 2 deep leadership, etc....) and hazardous weather training (online). Have you prepared a tour permit? As i think our council has blocks on the form for required training. The confusion is likely because Webelos are still Cub Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian a lady Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I checked my Cub Scout Leader Book (c. 2001) and in the section on camping it says: "To provide leadership for this event, Webelos den leaders should complete the course, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders." (This is from section 33, Cub Scout Camping.) In section 21 on the Webelos program it says: "Webelos den overnight campouts are parent-son events, under the direction of the Webelos den leader. The Webelos den leader should be trained in Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, which is in addition to basic training." It goes on to discuss parent attendence at the Webelos den overnighters and Webelos participating in joint overnight campouts with Boy Scout troops (also with Webelos parents attending). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Yep - Note it states SHOULD - not MUST. Webelos Outdoor training is recommended by National, but unless YOUR COUNCIL has additional/different rules, it is not REQUIRED to take a Webelos den camping. The same is true for BALOO training. National does not REQUIRE it to take a Webelos den camping, but YOUR COUNCIL might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 The "should" and the "must" may get ironed out when National starts requiring Unit Leaders to be trained in thier position, or they wont be rechartered.. I say "may" because what if you are a Webloes leader that never takes the Webloes scouting? But if the patrol has the same leader from start to finish, they will hit Recharter twice before going on to the troop. (First time, they will not be in the position for a year yet, so get a pass).. Will be interesting to see if IOWLS is needed to pass the second rechartering.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 From what I've seen they are revising the outdoor training courses adn some will be mandated. BALOO will be the same, and I believe, stressing BELIEVE, required for CM and ACM positions when mandatory comes out. I think I read that at a pilot council's website. Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders and Intro to Outdoor Leaders Skills will be combined into one course and WILL BE MANDATORY for WDLs, AWDLs, SMs, ASMs, and Crew Advisers and AAs who have outdoor programs. that came form a national training update from national a few months back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struax Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 IOWLS is not a "required" course to be a Trained Webelos Leader. It is a supplemental course for those that want to know the safety concerns of camping with Webelos as they progress towards Boy Scouts. Now the only time that this should become a concern is when the Leader fills out the Progress Record for his or her Webelos Leader Knot. Than and only than does IOWLS become a required course. It states on the Progress record that this course is required to earn this award. With all that stated, please take the course, if only for your own enjoyment of going camping and paling around with a few great Scouters in the mean time. Remember to get a Tour Permit you need to be trained in a few things, to go camping be it family Pack camping or Webelos Den or Boy Scout, you need to be trained in the Safety aspect of camping. MAke it Safe KEep it Fun.. and please read the Leader book this is a wealth of information. Now with all that said, look out for changes (this is good) that will be coming in future, IOWLS and IOLS will be combined into one class. (might be required than, ya think?) and keep and eye out for the new documentation for leaders. Enjoy and get those boys outside, and enjoy and keep it safe. Scott Cub Scout Training Chair GM District NCAC VC Programs GM District NCAC WDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2Scouts06 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 In our council you will get your tour permit rejected without someone with YP and Hazardous Weather that is attending the campout. In my opinion you at least need WDL training and Baloo. I hear other people on here talking about IOWLS or OWL but that training is no longer offered in some councils they offer the IOLS for Boy Scout leaders and Webelos leaders can take it if they so wish. Check with your council to be sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Mom, Some councils are going to IOLS instead of OWL right NOW as IOLS covers everything that OWL does, and then some. In fact I've seen an unoffical syllabus that a district put together that combines OWL and IOLS in the same weekend. Only difference is arrival times and length of time spend on some skills. Me personally I prefer WDLs and SMs takign the Same outdoor training. it better preps teh WDLs inthe BS program, which is the purpose of Webelos. Also it preps the WDL to be an ASM theyonly need to take SM fast start and specific as they got TIS and IOLS under their belt;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2Scouts06 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I agree Eagle! Our council has only offered IOLS for a number of years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imasoonerfan Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Our council does IOLS and WELOTS (OWLS) as a combined course with a few breakout sessions. EXAMPLE: When wood tools is taught the IOLS p'pants do an axe yard and the WELOTS p'pants learn the whittling chip. They arrive at the same time on Friday and depart at the same time on Sunday. It is run to immulate a Webelos Den visiting a Boy Scout Troop on a weekend campout. The only issue I have with it is that you have to take WELOTS to be trained to take your Webelos den camping (Council requirement) and then you have to come back on a seperate weekend to to take IOLS to be a trained ASM or SM. But overall both are good courses.(This message has been edited by imasoonerfan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 >>"The only issue I have with it is that you have to take WELOTS to be trained to take your Webelos den camping (Council requirement) and then you have to come back on a seperate weekend to to take IOLS to be a trained ASM or SM." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastScouter Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 One of our webelos leaders does not want to take IOLS because he says he has to then take it again if he helps as a ASM in another year. It seems to make sense do combine them both into one course. I also dont understand really why we make our Tiger DL's do leader specific training, and then we make them do it AGAIN the next year as a Wolf DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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