How much bleach or sanitizing tablet shold we use?

[T2Eagle]

Both the handbook and fieldbook list a three part process for dishwashing: hot wash, hot rinse, cold rinse. My question is about the third step. Both books say to use a few drops of bleach or a sanitizing tablet.

 

I am talking here strictly about front country camping where we have an ample supply of clean sanitary water.

 

Does anyone have a reference source for how much bleach or what kind and how much of a sanitizing tablet to use? Or a reference demonstrating the necessity of this?

 

When I do dishes at home I don't feel the need to perform step 3, and even on a family camping trip I wouldn't do it. But it's in the book and we do it in the troop and I don't want to stop following this method, but I am sure we're using too much bleach. After I've washed a dish in hot soapy water and rinsed it in clean hot water I'm not crazy about leaving a chlorine film on it to flavor my next meal.

 

Thanks,

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Clorox recommends 1 Tablespoon per Gallon of water. Most camping recommendations I've seen use this recommendation.

 

The State of Washington recommends 1 Teaspoon per Gallon of water. Most government and academic recommendations I've seen use this recommendation.

 

There are some that suggest 2 to 3 Tablespoons per Gallon is needed, and some that suggest that 5 drops per Gallon is all that is needed.

 

I think you're probably safe with an amount between 1 teaspoon and 1 tablespoon per gallon of liquid bleach. And make sure it's just plain, ordinary bleach - not one of those color-fast bleaches or other formulations that Clorox has.

[Nike]

Having a son who has gotten food poisoning from several Scout campouts, I'd say go with the 1 tablespoon per gallon and stir well. If the water smells overly bleachy, you've used too much.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, if your son got food poisoning, it was from da storage and preparation of the food, eh? Regular soap & water scrub and rinse is goin' to take care of dishes, and we really don't want to be dumpin' lots of halogenated water even in the front country.

 

I'd stop da practice myself, T2Eagle. Just silly, and means kids are handlin' potentially dangerous chemicals. Greater risk from that than from gettin' sick.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

Beavah

 

It is still being taught that way. Three tubs with the last being a sanitizing rinse. When I personal camp, I don't do the sanitizing rinse. When in scouting do as scouts do I guess.

[dg98adams]

When I cover that section in BALOO, I make it simple.... Cub Leaders (and Boy Scouts) have enough to remember. Besides our boys usually only have 1 spoon handy.

 

USE THE CAP the bleach comes in (~quarter-sized cap)

 

If you have a big tub (1 gal. or more) = 1/2 to full cap.

 

If you have a small tub (

[Twocubdad]

Back in the day, we were taught that the three pots were: warm, soapy wash; warm rinse; very hot, sanitizing rinse (using pot tongs and mesh bags to avoid getting scalded). When the wash water gets really nasty it is discarded, the two rinse tubs move down a slot and a new hot rinse is added to the end of the line.

 

One variation was to skip the hot rinse at clean-up time, but to boil water and sanitize the your utensils BEFORE the next meal.

 

One of our ASMs is big on the Clorox rinse, but I'm not a fan. I don't care for the idea of the boys carrying a bottle of bleach. I don't particularly think it's all that dangerous. I'm more concerned with the ruined clothes and gear. My ASM keeps the Clorox bottle with the adult gear and tells the boys to get it from him, but I don't care for that reliance on the adults either.

[dg98adams]

The BALOO wash presentation still includes the "rinse thru" method to clean/disinfect the wash tubs.

 

"Wash Water" should not get mucky if they scape off the plates/pots. Although, when I "breeze" by the workstations, sometimes I have to say out loud "where's your trash can for the scrapings".....and then I walk on.

 

I have not seen a Scout "bleach" a uniform in the last 3-4 years...but I expect not too many wear their "full uniform shirt" when in "wash detail".

 

I'd rather see a "bleach spot" than deal with scalds.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Beavah]

It is still being taught that way. Three tubs with the last being a sanitizing rinse.

 

Yah, it's da thing that just won't die. Maybe after we roll out more LNT Master Educators into the councils we can finally dispense with this stuff. My copy of da fieldbook mentions it as one method, but puts the sanitizer step second to make sure the stuff gets washed off in the third tub.

 

Momentary contact with a dilute solution of bleach during a rinse won't accomplish much of anything. Yeh can use da same trick to disinfect water for drinking, eh? But it takes 10-20 minutes or more. I've never seen anybody leave their dishes to soak for that long.

 

A bit of bleach in the eyes, or mixin' bleach up with a phosphate soap or such will do the lads a world of hurt. Chlorine is not a friendly chemical.

 

So yeh don't get much besides a bit of added risk for all that effort. I suppose if you're takin' your dishwater from a suspect source, it'll at least disinfect the water for yeh. But when you're frontcountry campin', odds are you're gettin' your water from a clean source in the first place.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Nike]

Alright, I'll admit that I like the smell of bleach. It reminds me of my Grandma.

 

Our pre-school in NC was required as late as 2004, to wipe down all surfaces and toys, including fabric, everyday with a 10-1 solution of water and bleach to deter the transmission of infections.

 

Maybe we're supposed the "sanitize" the dishes due to the fact that many kids don't let the water boil long enough to kill waterborn bacteria ( a roiling boil for a minute can take forever when you're a teen) or use untreated or suspect potable water for rinse water.

 

 

From the CDC (and granted most camps don't have floodwater quality potable water):

 

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters

 

Food-contact surfaces that may have touched floodwater [Examples: countertops, plates] Note: Throw away wooden cutting boards, baby bottle nipples, and pacifiers

 

1 teaspoon / 1 gallon

 

1. Wash with soap and warm, clean water.

2. Rinse with clean water.

3. Sanitize using a mixture of 1 teaspoon (4.9 mL) of bleach per gallon of clean water.

4. Allow to air dry.

 

 

For Handwashing after youve been cleaning up floodwater:

 

Or you may use water that has been disinfected for personal hygiene use (solution of teaspoon [~0.75 milliliters] of household bleach per 1 gallon of water). Let it stand for 30 minutes. If the water is cloudy, use solution of teaspoon (~1.5 milliliters) of household bleach per 1 gallon of water.

 

Just don't tell me you can properly clean a cutting board with a lemon and salt.

 

(edited to add CDC information)

(This message has been edited by Nike)

[Beavah]

Yah, dah problem with floodwater is that in much of da U.S. it causes overflow runoff from our sanitary sewers.

 

Nothing quite as good at spreadin' disease as a lot of human poo in the water.

 

Sometimes rivers and beaches downstream of sanitary systems become too dangerous to swim or boat in when there's been heavy rain.

 

So I reckon what da CDC says is a decent precaution if yeh have to be eatin' or drinkin' off of an area with high likelihood of human fecal coliform and other human waste contamination. Provided yeh aren't a prepared boy scout with a filter or iodine tablets or a steripen or a camp stove or somesuch lyin' around and your only option for treatment is your laundry bleach . Doesn't apply most of da time.

 

Generally speakin', too, if you're boilin' water on a camp stove or fire by the time it comes to a boil it's plenty safe. Camp stoves and fires aren't very fast, eh? By the time it's boiling it's exceeded the pasteurization temperature and time by quite a bit.

 

B

 

[Scoutfish]

In my BALOO training, the subject of bleach was brought up in this way: While not exactly household bleach, it was fairly close.

1 teaspoon per gallon.

 

IF you were camping for more than 1 day.

 

If it was just a 1 time thing, just wash as best you can and then straight to the dishwasher when you get home.

 

The average rate of evaporation or decompositions depends on the amount put in or used, but basically it comes down to this: bleach isn't bleach after 24 hours. This does not mean straight up still in the bottle bleach, but bleach that has been dilutted into the water you are using for sterilization.

 

Wait until the next day to dump the bleach solution out.

 

Another thing that was mentioned to us:

Instead of just wash, rinse, sanitize...you could do it in groups.

 

Srape out ( and into the trash) 7 or 8 plates at a time, then wash, rinse, and then drop them into the sanitizer.

 

Then scrape the next set of dishes and wash, rinse..remove the first ones from the sanitizer and dump the second set in.

 

Start scrapping the 3rd set of dishes.

 

Basically, use less bleach, but let the dishes sit a little bit longer. Same effect, less bleach used.

 

[DeanRx]

The 1 teaspoon per gallon of water is a good guide.

 

However, if one wants to think about WHAT the bleach is going to do, then you have to ask WHAT are you trying to treat against or prevent?

 

1) Viruses - uh ok, maybe - but not likely to linger on a well washed surface.

 

2) Giardia / Protozas - not likely as long as the water source is potable. To be extra safe, use only boiled water as the wash and hot rinse bins. More likely to be an issue in non-rinsed camelbacks filled from non-filtered questionable sources than from dishwashing water.

 

3) E. Coli - Ah... now we're getting somewhere... this bad boy is the likely culprit of most (if not all) camping tummy troubles. Can the sanitizing rinse prevent it? Yes - but not likely given the amount of time most dishes are given contact with the bleach-water solution. Most medical papers I've read on the subject suggest that contact in such a solution must be at least 1 to 5 minutes depending on the concentration of the bleach.

 

4) Other bacteria - maybe - but very few can live long on metal or plastic kitchen surfaces / wood cutting boards are a whole other monster and best avoided all the time (but especially when camping).

 

Bottom line-

 

A) Make sure the WASH is good. You can rinse in straight bleach and it'll do little good if the pan is put away with gummy mac-n-cheese still stuck in one corner. Scrubbing beats chemical serilization 99% of the time. Even with handwashing, the physical scrubbing does most of the 'germ' removal, the type of soap used makes little difference, but too short of time scrubbing leaves the bad guys on your hands (and dishes).

 

B) Speaking of handwashing, this is where 99% of all camp gut problems come from. Not just the cooks, but the eaters as well. Poor personal hygeine is the #1 reason for backcountry illness - period.

 

C) Safe foodhandling practices (i.e. don't mix raw meats with veggies on the same cutting board) and proper food storage - keeping food either COLD or HOT, not in the luekewarm danger area, do more to prevent foodborne illness than sanitizing clean dishware.

 

D) If you're really concerned - then do the bleach thing. But to be extra careful, you can leave dishware out in the open once cleaned, with its cooking or eating surface exposed to sunlight while you are doing your other camp activities. The UV rays from the sun will likely be just as effective (if not more effective) in killing off any lingering 'bugs' that could make you sick. Just be sure to rewash, if a bird happens to land a bulls-eye on your dinner plate

 

That's my 2-cents.... and yes - I am a real doctor.

 

Dean

[T2Eagle]

Thanks for the responses. While I was reading them I went back and checked the sources I originally cited. Something I never noticed was that they don't agree on the process. The Handbook says hot soapy water, hot water rinse, cold bleach rinse. The Fieldbook says hot soapy water, cold bleach rinse, then hot water rinse. So I think Ill go with the Fieldbook order and one teaspoon (or less) per gallon.

[frank10]

Funny this should come up,I've been wondering all day just how much I meed for my basement - Lets see, about 1 inch deep X 1500 sq ft... Bet that's more than two cap fulls.

 

Maybe I should just break out the swimming pool tablets and toss them down the basement steps and slam the door without looking.